B.G. listens to Haitink/CSO M3

[Leo K]

Thanks for the discussion of this everyone, I really can't wait to hear this (should arrive soon).  It's also cool to hear from someone who was at one of the concerts, so thanks Jot.


--Leo

[sperlsco]

Well, I've listened to the performance twice now -  both times on my car system.  If I am able to listen at home I may be able to comment on the ambiance and three-dimensionality of the recording, but I never get much feel for this in the car.  In addition, it is not always easy to catch small details in a vehicle.  Soooooo, with those disclaimers I am going to claim that this is a superb recording/performance in most respects.  I am indeed puzzled by the decision to use a smaller tam-tam in the final part of the third movement.  I usually think of this section as a Lion roaring, but perhaps this is just a bobcat.    It may be that they felt that the smaller tam-tam would cut through the tutti better than the larger one, but the musician really just needs to hit the large tam-tam harder if that was the case.   I have no problem with the soloist, although my preference is for someone with a darker and bigger voice. 

I already commented on the first movement, except that it sounds a little less inflexible the second time around.  Also, the beginning of the southern storm doesn't seem as strange the second time.  When the snare drum and bass drum both start out this section, you get the impression of the music accelerating (into battle).  Yet when the remaining orchestra enters, Haitink seems to ever-so-subtly pull back on the reigns. 

I like the fairly brisk tempo of the second movement, and also how the third movement seems to pick up intensity as it goes along.  The post-horn solo's are beautifully played, the harp is perfectly captured, and Haitink makes the end of the movement exciting (though again, the smaller tam-tam is a poor choice IMO).  The finale is wonderfully transcendent, with most of the tempos sounding just-right.  I have a real preference for how Bernstein (Sony) handles the tempos going into and out of the first cymbal crash (ever-so-slight pull back on reigns before the crash, followed by an accelerando after).  Haitink just hits the breaks through this whole part to seemingly emphasize the transcendent aspect of this music -- not my favorite way to do this, but many others do it this same way.  The big brass chorale around the second cymbal crash and the entire flow to the finish is truly outstanding.  The timpani are VERY prominent at the end, which is very much a preference of mine.  The brass power through the end. 

I haven't listened to the Chailly in a while, and I think of it as my favorite recent M3.  I need to see if I would be as impressed with the Haitink after relistening to the Chailly.  For now, this recording seems to easily enter my first tier of favorites. 

[barry guerrero]

All I can tell you is that I'm so turned off by this recorded performance that I've already stopped playing it at work. I don't even think Ms. De Young sounds particularly good, and the orchestral interlude in the brief "bim-bam" movement falls flat as a pancake. Scott, go back and listen to your Bernstein/Sony "bim-bam" movement, and you'll hear a world of difference. Even Levine/CSO has a far better "bim-bam" movement. I do have to admit, the big brass chorale in the finale is terrific. But for me, it just comes across as too little, too late. That doesn't mean I'm right, and that anyone else with a radically different response is wrong. But this is just how the performance, as a whole, comes across to me. I do like it better than MTT/SFSO, but I would rate that one somewhere towards the bottom. I prefer MTT's earlier LSO one (love the LSO in Mahler).

Weirdly enough, I would actually take Leo's Maazel/VPO M3 over either MTT/SFSO or Haitink/CSO. His may be a pervertedly slow performance, but I think it's actually more interesting. I think there's more weird "ear candy" along the way.

Barry

[Leo K]

Well, my copy finally arrived and I got to listen to it twice this afternoon while I was bedridden because my back suddenly went out yesterday (some serious pain!!).  I can't write too well so I hope I make sense.

I really like this M3 alot...not as much as my favorite Maazel M3, but still fine in terms of it's subtle bar by bar structuring that slowly builds to reveal a solid architectural beauty, an approach that pays much dividends in the finale, when there is a feeling of "fullness" and completeness.  To my ears, the very opening is a little too low key than I like (Maazel's is more powerful and earth bound for better or for worse), but there is an "autumnal" feeling thoughout that I actually enjoyed.  Make no mistake, the brass is powerful, but it's kept in line too, "micromanaged" almost but it's power deeply considered...at least thats how I heard it while my back was screaming in pain!!  Haitink's subtle control was interesting though, and Barry is correct when he says this sounds like an older Mahler.  Haitink plays the 3rd like it's a 9th or 10th symphony, which brings a different kind of sound that I could get into. 

Haitink is a very interesting conductor for me...his sense of structure and control is very refined and subtle, but this isn't boring to me, rather it sounds stoic on top, with emotion on the bottom.  I really like Haitink's instinct for structure in Mahler, which seems to tighten up this performance of Mahler's 3 quite a bit, but in a good way.  In contrast, Maazel's M3 is the work of an uneducated "outsider" artist...sprawling, slow and quirky.  In Haitink the strings have a hushed intensity too...actually everything is rather repressed until the last measures...but this M3 sounds rather quiet mostly.  Aside from the intense climaxes, I think it's the quietest M3 I've heard.  The highlight of the whole performance is the last movement...perhaps the best I've ever heard.


--Leo