Here's an even stranger thing about the Rattle Mahler box . . .

[barry guerrero]

How's this for an oddity:  After the "Das Klagende Lied" (disc 13), EMI threw-in 3.5 minutes from "der Abschied" (sixth movement of "DLvdE") from a 1995 performance in Birmingham, sung by Anne Sophie Von Otter. It was the section just before the where orchestra makes its gradual slide into the dark, funeral procession interlude: "O schoenheit  .    .  blah, blah, blah   .    .  trunkne Welt".  The fact that Von Otter sounds excellent, only makes it more frustrating that the entire perforamance isn't available. Now I ask you, what the heck is the point?!?

And by way, the offstage band passages in the third part of Rattle's "Das Klagende Lied", still sound waaaay, way too distant. Even with noise cancelling headphones, the offstage music is difficult to hear.

One more oddity: the disc with the first symphony, starts with "Blumine" first - before the first movement of M1, even. Go figure!

Barry

[John Kim]

That's strange indeed....

Speaking of Rattle/BPO M9th, I heard a live radio broadcast this last summer and my first impressions was that it sounded much like the Abbado/BPO/DG M9th. However, the sound was not very good, not very consistent. So, I shall give it a try again when the commercial CD comes out.

Did you mean to comment about Abbado/VPO M9th, NOT Abbado/VPO M3rd recording? I thought Abbado's live VPO M9th was terrific, only marred by the less-than-powerful-enough first climax in the 1st movt. I didn't hear any hint of taking multiple takes on this recording.

John,

[michaelw]

[One more oddity: the disc with the first symphony, starts with "Blumine" first - before the first movement of M1, even. Go figure!
Barry
[/quote]

This is the same order as on the original CD. When getting the box I was surprised too and checked immediately. However, I think that it makes sense: they have included this movement - not
really fitting in the symphony - "for information" and didn't want the listener to jump up or concentrate on clicking "stop" after the last movement.


Michael

[barry guerrero]

No John, I was saying that the sound of the Rattle/VPO M9 reminds me - even more now - of the sound on the Abbado/VPO M3. I agree that the Abbado/VPO M9 sounds pretty good - a bit muddy, perhaps, but with far better balances than what we hear on this Rattle M9.

My point, was that I suspect that much of the Abbado/VPO M3 was also taken from "live" Austrian Radio (ORF) sources. In other words, ORF and DG may have worked together on putting it together. Bizarre as that sounds, I know that DG often times mixed live and studio sources during the early digital days, which would help explain the often times weird sound quality (in an effort to even things out), and bad tape edits.

[John Kim]

Barry

I listened to the Abbado/VPO/DG M3 this morning. I don't think there is anything strange about the sonics except one thing; the very last bar of I. ends with a sudden death in its dynamic range, so sudden that I can only assume the engineers made a mistake of cutting the volume abruptly here. Otherwise, it sounds wonderful, not typical of DG in the early digital era. This M3rd is actually one of the best, even better than Abbado's BPO version. Some may not warm up to the long, drawn out finale clocking over 26 min. but I love it very much that way.

John,

[barry guerrero]

John,

What are we dabating here? I didn't say that it was a lousy performance. However, I do think that it drags and loses momentum in the last three movements. Sonically speaking, however, it has the opposite problem to Abbado's BPO remake. The dynamic range is extremely wide, but soft parts are extremely difficult to hear w/o headphones, or running over to turn them way up. At least, that's always been experience with this one particular recording. If you like it, great. There ARE some wonderful moments, earlier on, but I gave up on it years ago - too many frustrating moments for me, as well as the good ones.

B.

[bluesbreaker]

I do think the Abbado VPO M3 is quite lousy, especially the finale.

[John Kim]

I do think the Abbado VPO M3 is quite lousy, especially the finale.

Finale? Not the 1st movt? I thought the finale is rather quite...listen to how Abbado softens the timpani in the closing pages.

I can name other M3s that are lousier...

John,

[bluesbreaker]

Probably I didnt like how abbado played the M3...............I meant lousy from the conducting point of view.
Yea you are right, the first movement is lousier, but I hate how he softens the last pages of the symphony. Theres no impact hwatsoever from the timpani!
Maybe I should listen again?

[barry guerrero]

The two sets of timpani are marked only forte, not fortissimo. But Abbado goes too far in softening their strokes at the end here. He also holds the final chord longer than anybody else ever has. I guess that's OK, I suppose, but what I don't like is clear back at the climax of the long brass chorale - the location of the last cymbal crash. There, the horns are real strong, but the trombones completely fall down on the job: great horns; no trombones.

This is what I mean about the Abbado M3 and Rattle M9 sounding somewhat alike. The horns are absurdly loud on both recordings. I do like the horns - lots of them - but not at the point where balances within the brass section are completely askew. The CSO used to have the opposite problem throughout the late 70's, 80's, and 90's: tons of trumpet and trombone, and too little from the horns (kind of a "bracky", trombonish sound anyway) and tuba.

Barry