Mahler & Dichterliebe

[Matthew]

Listening to Schumann's Dichterliebe today, I was struck by how similar the song "Das ist ein Flöten und Geigen" is to the Wunderhorn song "Des Antonius von Padua Fischpredigt" and hence also to the Scherzo of M2 (the Scherzo movement came to mind first). Both are in 3/8 time with that dance-like lilt (and with irony), and the spirit of the Schumann song is similar to Mahler's. The last 5 bars of the song and Mahler's song/scherzo are virtually identical - very chromatic but in different keys (the last chord of the Schumann song is D major, Mahler's ends on the low C). Here is the translation to Schumann's song:

There is a fluting and fiddling,
trumpets are blaring within.
There in the wedding circle dances
the best beloved of my heart.

There is a hubbub and a din,
drumming and piping,
and in between are sobbing and wailing
the dear angels.

Then I checked out Mahler's program for the Scherzo:

"When you awaken from that blissful dream and are forced to return to this tangled life of ours, it may easily happen that this surge of life ceaselessly in motion, never resting, never comprehensible, suddenly seems eerie, like the billowing of dancing figures in a brightly lit ballroom that you gaze into from outside in the dark - and from a distance so great that you can no longer hear the music. Then the turning and twisting movement of the couples seems senseless...."

Could Mahler have had Schumann's song in mind when he wrote his song and Scherzo? The ending sounds like a direct quotation to me, and looking at the words of the song and Mahler's program note for the Scherzo, there seems to be a close emotional connection. Anyway, maybe this is already documented somewhere.

BTW, I was listening to Fritz Wunderlich's recording of Dichterliebe - what a voice! It's a shame that he only sang Das Lied. I wish he'd recorded the tenor part in M8 - I think he'd have been fantastic in the "Blicket auf" section....

[mike bosworth]

Listening to Schumann's Dichterliebe today, I was struck by how similar the song "Das ist ein Flöten und Geigen" is to the Wunderhorn song "Des Antonius von Padua Fischpredigt" and hence also to the Scherzo of M2 (the Scherzo movement came to mind first). Both are in 3/8 time with that dance-like lilt (and with irony), and the spirit of the Schumann song is similar to Mahler's. The last 5 bars of the song and Mahler's song/scherzo are virtually identical - very chromatic but in different keys (the last chord of the Schumann song is D major, Mahler's ends on the low C).......

Could Mahler have had Schumann's song in mind when he wrote his song and Scherzo? The ending sounds like a direct quotation to me, and looking at the words of the song and Mahler's program note for the Scherzo, there seems to be a close emotional connection. Anyway, maybe this is already documented somewhere.

The basically identical endings of the two songs is discussed in "Todtenfeier and the Second Symphony" by the late Edward E. Reilly.  His article appears in The Mahler Companion (ed. Mitchell and Nicholson)--see page 110.  Referring to M2.3, Reilly says "The movement ends, as did the song on which it is based, with a clear and possibly intentional quotation from Schumann's ironic and melancholy song 'Das ist en Flöten und Geigen' from his Dichterliebe.  In a footnote he credits Dr. Edward Kravitt with pointing out the connection, and also notes that it was mentioned by Glenn Watkins in Soundings: Music in the Twentieth Century (p. 10).

It certainly sounds like a direct quote to me.  HLG in his vol. I (p. 790) notes that Mahler once compared the the calm, pensive trumpet interlude of the movement "to a marriage ('Hoch Zeit' [time of exaltation]), a celebration that a man can hold only once in a lifetime."

Mike Bosworth
Hanoi

[barry guerrero]

While it's not often discussed now, a big accusation against Mahler during his time was that he had been basically copying and rewriting everyone else's music. Fortunately for us, he did it all better.

Barry

[Matthew]

Thanks for your detailed post Mike - I'll have to check out The Mahler Companion. Schumann must have been quite an important influence for Mahler, and of course there were also Mahler's re-workings of the Schumann symphonies. All very interesting.....

Matthew

[stillivor]

  That supposed copying and re-writing gave rise to the joke on the Mahler joke thread.

  I wonder whether it was a copying in this case, or an allusion, or the workiings of the unconscious. Mahler was clever and intellient and (goes without saying really), musically knowledgable. On the other hand, his unconsciousness may have played a greater part in his work than in those of less 'subjective' composers have done in theirs.

  I've only got to the point in my process where it's speculation.


    Ivor