Light Holiday Listening: Part two

[Leo K]

Last year Barry posted his "light" holiday listening consisted of the M10, and described his thoughts on all the versions...which I will quote below:

Between driving up and down the S.F. peninsula and cleaning house, I've been able to work in a Mahler X fest. Although I enjoy listening to all the versions (almost), my opinions come out pretty much as they already have been. By far, my favorites are the Ormandy - now available in pretty good sound - and the Litton/Dallas (Carpenter version). Gielen is great with the more "expressionistic" moments of the work. Hence, his fourth movement (second scherzo) and the faster development section of the fifth movement, are both excellent. But I don't like his almost absurdly loud solo bass drum strokes, and I truly feel that his second and third movements are pretty-darn prosaic. The poor little "Purgatorio" movement, in particular, really gets short changed under his direction. Ormandy is just more consistant throughout, and his Philly string section was just unbeatable in those days.

Carpenter's version is wild and woolly - often times stepping into the even more expressionistic sound world of Alban Berg - but his orchestration and pastiche composing sounds more idiomatic of Mahler - to me, anyway - than Wheeler, Barshai, or Mazzetti do. In fact, weirdly enough, I think it's Barshai who sounds the least like Mahler. I hate to say that because I know he does terrific Shostakovich, and has made a really good recording of the Mahler 5th. But I'm afraid that I just cringe at a lot of the stuff he comes up with. Wheeler isn't so bad overall, but his second movement (first scherzo) is chalk full of really unidiomatic percussion writing for late Mahler, especially with the snare drum and bass drum. It's also strangely light in the lower end of the orchestra:  tuba, double basses, contrabassoon, bass clarinet - all of these instruments are greatly underemployed (like me). The Rattle/BPO Mahler 10th (Cooke III) also has terrific string playing, but EMI has sure let him down in terms of sound quality. In some respects, it's actually the worst sounding one in my collection. Rattle's is available in a DVD-A disc, and I'd like to pick that up someday. But truthfully, I'm very happy with the Ormandy. I'm afraid I'm just not a fan of Rattle/Birmingham because, once again, the bass drum is just ridiculously loud (Mahler only wrote forte - which Cooke stuck to - and Cooke adds "muted").

I'd really like to see somebody do a good commercial recording of the Samale/Mazzuca version. In many respects, I think it's the best overall version of any. Like Carpenter, they address many of the bigger picture issues of the work:  the end of the first scherzo (second movement); doing something different with the da capo repeat in the "Purgatorio"; making more of the climax in "Purgatorio"; making more of the expressionistic outbursts towards the end of the second scherzo (fourth movement); making the reprise of the first movement's "expressionistic" anti-climax louder and more frightening in the fifth movement;  doing something, ANYTHING, with the string dominated, Merchant-Ivory sounding music that happens in the back half of the fifth movement (less prostate and dull) - these are just some of the bigger issues that both Carpenter and S/M address. The others, I'm afraid, just add lots of lots of useless filigree without thoroughly addressing these shortcomings. Samale/Mazzuca, on the other hand, do address these issues but without going so far into the sound world of Alban Berg ("Wozzeck" and "Three Pieces" come to mind). In a sense, S/M's orchestration sounds a bit more like Schoenberg, and less like Berg - sharper and more rhythmically incisive, I suppose.

Then Scott had some good comments too...again I re-post below:

I've mentioned several times on the old Board that the Barshai M10 does very little for me.  Much of his percussion writing is very unidiomatic to my ears.  However, he does a nice job with the first movement (which may just be the playing/conducting as opposed to any particular orchestration differences) and with the purgatorio.  The Wheeler does even less for me -- especially in the second movement (as you mention).  To sum up the Wheeler:  he attempts to do very little with the orchestration, and what he does I dislike.  Barshai does more, but does it no better. 

I quite like much of the Mazzetti.  In his first version he seems to try to do more, which is both good and bad depending on the part.  Since he has fewer "misses" in his revision, it is probably more enjoyable overall.  Let's face it, all of the M10 versions are going to be subject to our personal preferences and tastes more than any of his 10 completed symphonies (i.e. we are less likely to criticize Mahler's own completed vision).  All in all, though, I prefer Cooke to Mazetti, and prefer Carpenter/Litton above all. 

One of my problems with most of the Cooke II and III versions is that the first and final movements are too slow for my taste, while the two scherzos are too fast.  This is one area that Gielen really nails for me: faster in the outer movements, slower in the middle ones.  It is also one of the things (among many) that I really like about Carpenter/Litton.  Well, Litton's first movement is slower than my preference, but...

Yes, I am bothered by the cannon-shots in the fifth movement by Gielen (as well as Rattle 1 and Inbal).  Chailly does much better (i.e. more moderate), and strangely, Barshai does the drum blows well too. Rattle II may still be too loud, but it is also a very DEEEEEEP bass drum -- which I like.   I can't remember how Sanderling does here.  Fortunately, Litton plays them louder than Carpenter specifies, but they are still a little too small in a couple of spots.

I'm starting my own M10 fest this weekend, starting with the Mazetti II, which I'm listening to for the first time, and finding that I REALLY like it...it's a revelation is some ways...similar to Wheeler, of whom I'm a fan of.  Mazetti's "lighter" orchestration recalls the M4, but not too obviously...and does carry the sound world of Dlvde quite well.  The first movment in particular is quite thinner in sound and I like that...even sounds happy in some sections...or just light in mood, which only makes the climax dark and thrilling.  It's been years since I heard Mazzetti I, which I will listen to after and compare...I remember liking his first thoughts as well. 

I personally find the M10 a fascinating and fullfilling work even though it's unfinished, it may be my favorite Mahler...on some days it surely is.

--Todd 

[John Kim]

I like the Wheeler's edition as much as I do the Mazetti II. OTOH, Cooke's version sounds too "classical" to these ears, while Carpenter's is too far fetched. Still, there are a lot to be liked in the Carpenter's; his III. is just perfect, better than any other editions and I know many would agree on this. And while Carpenter added his own stuff and quoted from Mahler's other compositions, I like it that his completion  reminds me of music of the Second Viennese School. But overall Mazetti I. might the version I most turn to when I listen to a completed M10th.

John,

[Leo K]

Thanks for the thoughts John,

I feel Wheeler and Mazetti are more in Mahler's sound world than Cooke, although I like Cooke for other details, it's been replaced with my love for the Carpenter, which I also enjoy for the second Viennese school sound, and it doesn't get too "thin" sounding, as Wheeler and Mazetti often is. 

I love the refined playing on Barshai's version, but it doesn't sound Mahlerian in many sections, still it's enjoyable and is as much a  vaild view as any...great 2nd scherzo on that recording...especially the horn playing. 

Carpenter's is larger than life...I really like this and is probably truer to the spirit of this work.

--Todd

[John Kim]

My favorite picks of M10 are,

Carpenter: Litton/DSO/Delos, Truly one of the greatest Mahler recordings, it really doesn't matter which edition Litton is conducting when he and his orchestra get so good.

Mazetti II: Lopez-Cobos/CSO/Telarc. A very good performance (albeit the first and finale where a degree of more anguish and desperation might be needed) but I wish there will be more recordings.

Wheeler: Olson/Naxos

Cooke: Rattle/BPO/EMI

John,

[stillivor]

  I currently play M in cycles. Next one os 6th, and my plan is to play the old Flipse LPs. Played the expo of I yesterday, and that was all I needed for a good night's sleep and dream.

  I'm interested in the variations- a M10-athon, M1 month etc.

  just played Bruckner 4 and he's dtill my joint-2nd fave. composer.


  Ivor