New M6 - Haitink/CSO

[barry guerrero]

As I said - and I think that somebody at HMU must have realized this too, since they're going to release both M6s in the same month - you're getting two radical Mahler 6 recordings here: one extremely slow, and one extremely fast. We've already had Barbirolli; Chailly; Sinopoli; Segerstam; Gielen (just his first two movements are slow) give us slow performances that are very good. But we haven't had an extremely fast one in a while; probably not since Jarvi (Chandos). Given a choice between extremely fast or extremely slow, I'm probably going to gravitate to the fast one.

I just think that if somebody wants to hear the 6th Mahler played by the big guns of an American orchestra, I think they should stick to
Eschenbach/Philly or MTT/SFSO (even that's hardly my favorite). I don't mean to be hating on Haitink, but I just don't hear any improvement from him. He has one very good idea in the finale, which is to slow down at the (false) victory parade march tune, towards the end, and have the horns blast out the march melody at a full fortissimo. However, he should have also realized that the passing marching band needs some drummers as well. I agree with Hurwitz's opinion, that some of the percussion simply got left off when the revised version was printed. But that's just an opinion - we have no evidence of that.

I think that a far more creative idea - especially in S/A order - is to do it the way that Gielen did: make the first and second movements slow, dark, and ponderous, but then take the andante moderato and finale more up to speed.

As for Gergiev, check out the little video promo for the LSO Live Mahler cycle. I like what he has to say, and I like how the excerpts sound. Obviously, he's going to be too fast with the symphony's initial march (and I like Haitink's slow tempo for the initial march), but he's going to have the inner movements up to speed, and the outer movements will be fast and exciting as well. Given the sort of dry, staccato sound that the LSO usually get, along with the dryish acoustics they often play in, I think that faster Mahler with them isn't a bad idea at all. We'll see. Obviously, fast tempi are going to work better in same works and some passages, than in others. The first movement of his 7th will probably be too fast, but the finale could be sensational. We'll have to wait and see.

Barry

[Leo K]

I'm really looking forward to the Gergiev M6 as well, just as much as the Haitink.

The Eschenbach/Phili M6 is in my top tier, there is just something very satisfying about the playing and pacing, especially his lead-in to Alma's theme in the first movement, which is deeply moving, and the andante movement is a powerhouse.

The Macal/CPO M6 is also a winner, and another fast one that really works...he may have one of the most "objective" accounts out there (reminds me of Horenstein/Bournemouth actually).  And the sound in SACD in pristine.

--Todd

[John Kim]

Barry and others,

If you guys like a fast M6th, come to see and listen to Schwarz/SSO M6th concert in June. I heard them playing the symphony a couple years ago and I found they nailed down on the piece as perfectly as I could imagine. Further, it had the BEST Scherzo (which came in second) I ever heard. I always had thought Rattle had the best Scherzo but on that day Mr. Schwarz and Seattle Symphony proudly broke the record . In particular, Schwarz let several brass lines come out and roar in key passages. Never had I heard those parts so clearly (I actually didn't realize they were there until I heard the concert).

John,

[John Kim]

I've just finished listening to the 2004 Haitink/LSO M6th concert again. It is slow, clocking at over 25 min. but otherwise a perfect performance; the playing, tempo relations, phrasing, accents, dynamics, balance, are all in the right places. And it didn't feel dragging or boring at all.

John,

[Leo K]

Look, here's a great comparison to make: just compare the start of the development section of the first movement on the Haitink/CSO M3/I - right where the double basses and celli play their soli passage - to the same passage on the Zinman M3. There's no comparison! Continue to the start of the of recapitulation, which is the reiteration of the symphony's opening horn fanfare. Listen to how much more exciting and alive sounding the Zinman is, during that passage where the low brass are playing their ridiculous sounding koo-koo clock-like, octave jumps; while the clarinets belt out their equally ridiculous sounding folk melodies - all of which is accompanied by tambourine (should be doubled). Then listen to how much more momentum Zinman builds up through the "southern storm" fantasy-like, climactic passage; and how he has the offstage snare drum solo played at a tempo that's much closer to that of the  horn fanfare (on the Haitink, the offstage snare drum solo is waaaay too fast). This is a real Charles Ives-ian moment, where the low strings are finishing up at the old, faster tempo, while the offstage drum enters at the new, slower tempo. And for goodness sake, give the Zinman a fair chance by turning the volume way up - you'll find that things are plenty forceful enough (seldom a problem with Mahler), and that the balances are actually much better.

I happen to have access to a good stereo system at a friend's house tonight...I hope to be able to play the Zinman M3 on speakers for the first time...I usually only hear on headphones because my apartment is too noisy.

--Todd

[Leo K]

Wow...I just heard the Zinman M3 in a completely different light last night on my friend's stereo...I basically blasted the thing in a large living room, and it was like hearing a different CD.

Barry is right...you have to have this on a decent loudness...then everything comes into focus and then some!

I was so blown away, this may become my top M3 pick.


--Todd

[Leo K]

I just want to add to my post above...

the details in Zinman's M3 have more character than I remembered...the orchestra sounds gigantic, and the pacing is flawless...I am still reeling in wonder!  The tam tam is LOUD!   


--Todd

[barry guerrero]

"The tam tam is LOUD!"

What I like, is you can clearly hear the one at the end of the trombone solo - right where the upper woodwinds are playing long trills. I don't think it even got played on the Haitink/CSO one. But I shouldn't pick on that one, because it can't be heard on any number of recordings . Go figure! Horenstein has a good one there.

Barry

[Leo K]

"The tam tam is LOUD!"

What I like, is you can clearly hear the one at the end of the trombone solo - right where the upper woodwinds are playing long trills. I don't think it even got played on the Haitink/CSO one. But I shouldn't pick on that one, because it can't be heard on any number of recordings . Go figure! Horenstein has a good one there.

Barry

This is a section of the score I have been paying more attention too...you are right, it is barely heard on most recordings unfortunately.  And I find the tam tam issue is becoming a deal breaker for me!  My top picks tend to feature this detail.  Another important spot is the climax of the third movement...it's gotta sound "cosmic" and "other worldly" (or just plane BIG) to be successful...Zinman is very good at this point...perhaps the best I've heard.


--Todd

[John Kim]

I also listened to II.-IV. of the Haitink/LSO live M6th and found them utterly powerful and convincing as I did upon hearing the performance for the first time. Speaking of tam tam, Haitink let it sound clearly and loud enough in various places, such as at the beginning of the coda to I. This performance takes longer than the CSO version, something like

I. 26 min.
II. 14.5 min.
III. 17.5 min.
IV. 34 min.

and yet so gripping is the performance that none of the movements sounds boring or dragging.

John,

[Leo K]

I also listened to II.-IV. of the Haitink/LSO live M6th and found them utterly powerful and convincing as I did upon hearing the performance for the first time. Speaking of tam tam, Haitink let it sound clearly and loud enough in various places, such as at the beginning of the coda to I. This performance takes longer than the CSO version, something like

I. 26 min.
II. 14.5 min.
III. 17.5 min.
IV. 34 min.

and yet so gripping is the performance that none of the movements sounds boring or dragging.

John,

I hope beyond hope the CSO plays as good as the LSO...Barry has got me somewhat worried!   


--Todd