B.G. final verdict on Zinman M6

[barry guerrero]

All four movements are great. Thus, I really like Zinman's Mahler 6. The scherzo is a tad slower than I personally like, but he nails all of Mahler's weird and deliberate sound effects. The slow movement is fabulous, as long as you don't need it to be stretched out to true Adagio lengths (which it ain't). The first movement is pretty straight forward (as is the finale), but at least he doesn't drag the second subject - the so-called "Alma" theme - as so many conductors do. He also just nails two important transition points: those few weird sounding bars at the very beginning of the development section (before it turns loud), and the stopped horns who carry "the tune" just before the coda (often times completely inaudible). Be warned: huge hammer blows in the finale.

Barry

[John Kim]

Your review hints that Zinman's may sound like Sanderling's with St. Petersburg Orch.

Is this right?

John,

[barry guerrero]

A tad slower in the scherzo; a tad more underlining of weird sound effects (all deliberate on Mahler's part); and bigger sounding hammer blows. Also, Zinman has tons of onstage cowbells going into the climactic passage of the slow movement. On top of that, Zinman is in Andante/Scherzo order. But other than the scherzo, the timings are fairly similar.

Purely for the sake of convenience, you might think of Zinman as a cross between Eschenbach (weight of tone; sound effects) and Sanderling. But please, don't take that too literally. Zinman is his own man.

Barry

[Damfino]

I will be curious as to whether it is a 5.0 or 5.1 SACD. Earlier Zinman hybrids only featured 4-channel sound, with the middle channel left out. Basically, you got SACD stereo with some ambient echo in the rears and nothing in the center.

[merlin]

@barry

How might you compare this with Bernstein on DG?

[barry guerrero]

Very different. Bernstein is far more expansive in the finale and slow movement. However, Bernstein makes the introductory section of the finale really scary - more so than Zinman, I must admit. Zinman's slow movement runs just a little over 14 minutes, which is far closer to Mahler's own timings (yes, people did time him). I greatly prefer the "moderate andante" approach (as opposed to turning it into an Adagio, which it's not). For me, Bernstein is a tad too fast with the symphony's opening march. Zinman is just a notch or two slower (I'd have to get a metronome). For me, Zinman keeps closer to my, "sturm und drang period Haydn on steroids" concept of the work.

Barry

[merlin]

"sturm und drang period Haydn on steroids."

Can I take this to mean that the interpretation lacks the intensity, fire, and passion of much of Beethoven, Lizst, and Aho, for example, as well as Bernstein's versions?

[vvrinc]

“Haydn on steroids”...now I am nervous.

[barry guerrero]

No; just meaning that the "classical" shape and structure of the work is somewhat more observed. Then again, that's just a perception on my part. For my taste, there's plenty of intensity. And by the way, the "sturm und drang" period Haydn works are quite intense. Many of them are in minor keys.

[sperlsco]

How are the movements split on the discs?  It appears from HMV.jp that the first three movements are on disc 1, with the finale on the second disc -- is that correct? 

This is important so that I know if I can easily reprogram the middle movements to my preferred ordering! I'll probably be ordering it from Japan or Germany in the near future. 

[michaelw]

How are the movements split on the discs?  It appears from HMV.jp that the first three movements are on disc 1, with the finale on the second disc -- is that correct? 

This is important so that I know if I can easily reprogram the middle movements to my preferred ordering! I'll probably be ordering it from Japan or Germany in the near future. 

It's just the other way: The first movement is on CD1 and the remaining mvts are on disc 2. Very well done in my opinion, since this allows to listen to the transition
from 3rd to 4th (independent of preferred order) without change of disc.

Michael

[Leo K]

Zinman's new M6 is among the more poweful M6's to come along recently, definitely more than the Gergiev, and sounds better.  As a matter of fact, this may be the best recorded M6 since Macal's Exton account, and Sieghart.  Sonically, Eschenbach's M6 is not as good as the ones I've mentioned.  Haitink's CSO M6 SACD sounds great too. 

This new Zinman M6 has a atmospheric dark tone, the lower forces of the orchestra resonate well...the orchestra is not too close, but at a good distance to hear the air around everything...very nice sound.  The timbres in the tuttis have texture and the ear easily hears the colors of the instrumental combinations.

Zinman is indeed a cross between Sanderling and Eschenbach as Barry described, but far more colorful in the effects of the orchestration thanks to the sonics...perhaps the best in the cycle (though I haven't heard the M5 yet).  The hammerblows are among the biggest on SACD (MTT's M6 has loud ones too), very powerful and profound sounding.  I listened to the performance in Scherzo/andante order. 

Love it!!!

--Todd

[merlin]

Just finished listening to this, and agree with Todd completely about the intensity and power of the performance.  It makes Barbirolli/NPO/EMI, the only other version I have heard, seem quite bland in comparison.

I look forward to listening to the Bernstein/VPO/DG disc, which also arrived yesterday.

[Leo K]

Just finished listening to this, and agree with Todd completely about the intensity and power of the performance.  It makes Barbirolli/NPO/EMI, the only other version I have heard, seem quite bland in comparison.

I look forward to listening to the Bernstein/VPO/DG disc, which also arrived yesterday.

I bet the Bernstein is going to blow you away, just wait until you hear what Lenny does in the first movement development section, one of the most moving accounts in all music for me...its still my top M6.

--Todd

[merlin]

Just finished listening to Bernstein/VPO/DG Box II M6.  It is fantastic in all repects. and the SQ is excellent.

I no longer feel the need to purchase the Fischer/BFO version, even though it is on SACD.