M2: Maazel/NYP download

[chalkpie]

OK - I am normally indifferent to Maazel - don't love him or hate him. Same with the NYP (actually I like the orchestra, but hate David Finlayson - ego pri*k)

Anyway,,,,

I am blown away by this recording. I mean blown away. Sonically it is great, but the playing is fantastic. He takes some very interesting liberties regarding tempi. Special mention has to be made regarding the brass section - they are on FIRE. I sometimes feel I'm listening to Chicago - it's that good. A Weak point would have to be Cornelia Kallisch, Mezzo-soprano - too much vibrato and not gentle enough. Too bad. But the Finale is a hoot and the closing moments are simply as good as ti gets IMO. The tempo is *perfect* and the organ, the organ, the orchestra - it's all there and they nail it.

I am quite surprised myself. This may enter top 5 M2 territory for me and I own upwards of 11-12 M2's.

Any other believers? Am I nuts?

[chalkpie]

No takers yet......I don't blame you. I was a non-believer myself.

But surely one you of you Mahler nutjobs has to take a chance at some point......in the very least to verify my insanity for liking this....

Seriously, it's good. It's not going to knock out Lenny DG, Gielen, Klemperer, Mehta, but it does de-throne guys like Chailly, Boulez, Slatkin, Tilson Thomas. etc.

[vvrinc]

I am with you. I started with 3, 5 and 7. Was so pleased, I bought all of them. The sound on the FLACs is excellent.

For me, these NYP recordings blow away sets or partial ones by Chailly, Boulez, Slatkin (really, please!), Tilson Thomas, Zinman, and Gergiev. (By the way, I do own all of those except the Slatkin.)

[John Kim]

I haven't heard the NYPO performances yet (except for the 6th which was rather very good), but I like most of Maazel's traversal with BRSO, especially the 2nd, 5th, 7th, and 9th.

But I can't live with his first cycle with VPO .

John,

[sperlsco]

I REALLY dislike just about all Mahler by Maazel, with the exception of his DVD of M9 with the BRSO.  His Vienna M4 and M2 are fairly competitive and have enough good in them to offset the bad.  I downloaded most of the NYPO cycle from eMusic -- mostly because it was a good deal when I did so (<$3 per symphony, except for the 8th).  However, I really disliked the first three to which I listened -- the M7, M1, and the M5.  I also gave a cursory listen to the M3 and stopped before the end.  Your rave just might get me to give the M2 a try, but I'll probably need to get in the mood. 

[John Kim]

IMO, Maazel has always been reliable to very good at M2, M4, M6, and M9 with variable degrees. There is a live recording of him conducting M7 with CVLO from the 70s. That one was akin to Klemperer's notorious version with PO, i.e., it had extremely slow tempos and lugubrious treatment in many passages. But the sheer brilliance of the orchestra shined through, mitigating all the negatives somewhat. In the case of M9th, he just continued to improve each time he conducted the piece, as if he realized what had gone wrong in the previous try.

John,

[chalkpie]

Is it perfect? No. Is any reading of M2 for that matter? There are moments here and there of just about every Mahler symphony that you wish they would have done this better, or more , or less, or slower, etc. but overall Maazel convinced me with this M2. He seemed to "get" it, and the entire symphony hung together quite well, with heartfelt emotion. But I will also say that I am surprised (shocked?) that the NYP Played so well on this date.

I am now curious to hear the M7 in this set.

[chalkpie]

I Just listened to the Slatkin standard CD version of M2, and I will retract my statement which stated that the Maazel is superior - it is not. Apples and oranges for sure.

BUT, I will say this - gun to my head - I would take the Maazel over the Slatkin. Much better sonics, not as "normal" sounding (sorry, but Slatkin plays it 'straight' there, which is fine) whereas Maazel has some idiosyncratic touches that I enjoy more.

Also, the most powerful ending of any M2 on record AFAIC alongside Bernstein NYP on DG.

[sperlsco]

Okay, I've listened to the Maazel NYPO M2 download a few times now...and you are right.  This is one absolutely fabulous M2.    I agree with everything you wrote in your original post.  I'll also add that the percussion section is superb in every way.  AND AND AND There is absolutely NO WAY that this is Maazel conducting!!!      

This performance has flexible tempos, great shaping, lots of big moments, and still all of the clarity and textural detail that Maazel usually tries to bring to a performance (usually at the expense of all else).  Just one example of a big moment worth mentioning -- the percussion crescendo before the March of the Souls is played to the hilt.  The march itself is very Klemperer-like, features great brass, and loud/ringing cymbals (a MUST for me).  The final passage is as good as any recording with good organ, brass, high and low tam-tams, and bells galore.  WOW!!!  Okay, so neither soloist is anything special -- but they don't detract from the performance. 

I'm also a big fan of the Slatkin M2, so there is nothing about either one that should make you dislike the other.  As you said, apples and oranges. 

[John Kim]

As I recall, Maazel's BRSO concert had similar traits. He finally seemed to have found a true Mahlerian wavelength in his bone and soul.

John,

[Leo K]

He finally seemed to have found a true Mahlerian wavelength in his bone and soul.
John,

He sure has.  It's great!

--Todd

[barry guerrero]

Maazel finished his tenure in Pittsburgh with the "Resurrection", which was yet another ultra-slow performance from him. But he did unleash that 50" (130cm) Wuhan chau gong at the end of the symphony, especially for the low tam-tam part. The funny thing is, when you look at the Youtube excerpt of the end of the Mahler 8th with Maazel/Vienna Phil. (I think they're performing in the opera house), you see that they're using a 50" Wuhan as well. I've always wondered if the VPO does own their own 130cm Chau Gong, or if Maazel had the Pittsburgh one shipped over (?). I believe that he used it on stage for his "Turandot" performances in Wien with Eva Marton as well. My guess is that he coaxed the Vienna Opera into buying a 50" for the Turandot. Hence, an excuse to do M8 in the opera house (you can tell it's an electronic organ too).

Barry

[chalkpie]

Okay, I've listened to the Maazel NYPO M2 download a few times now...and you are right.  This is one absolutely fabulous M2.    I agree with everything you wrote in your original post.  I'll also add that the percussion section is superb in every way.  AND AND AND There is absolutely NO WAY that this is Maazel conducting!!!      

This performance has flexible tempos, great shaping, lots of big moments, and still all of the clarity and textural detail that Maazel usually tries to bring to a performance (usually at the expense of all else).  Just one example of a big moment worth mentioning -- the percussion crescendo before the March of the Souls is played to the hilt.  The march itself is very Klemperer-like, features great brass, and loud/ringing cymbals (a MUST for me).  The final passage is as good as any recording with good organ, brass, high and low tam-tams, and bells galore.  WOW!!!  Okay, so neither soloist is anything special -- but they don't detract from the performance. 

I'm also a big fan of the Slatkin M2, so there is nothing about either one that should make you dislike the other.  As you said, apples and oranges. 

Glad to hear it. It's nice to see that I'm not the only crazy one who thinks this! 

Good call on the percussion crescendo also - yes! (I kinda' wish he would have let the second one take a bit more time, but....)

And as for the vocalists - exactly. Not the best, but in all honesty the vocals don't make or break this piece IMO.

[chalkpie]

bump.

Anybody else hear this?