Mahler 5/Barbirolli/Esoteric SACD ESSE 90057

[sperlsco]

I might also mention the Esotereic SACD remastering of the Klemperer Das Lied ESSE-90043, which is also a gorgeous sonic presentation. Christa Ludwig is heard singing from the middle of the orchestra with the score flowing around her. There is now a separate EMI SACD version the Klemperer Das Lied available from Japan that I have not heard.

Tom in Vermont

(sorry for three consecutive posts)

I have the EMI SACD.  The sound is gorgeous.  You would never know that it is an almost 50 year old recording.  It truly sounds as good sonically as a contemporary SACD.  The Lennie/Sony ones i refer to in my previous post do not hold a candle to this one. 

[John Kim]

...  For example, the Sony Japan SACDs of Bernstein's first cycle are not nearly as good sonically as the remastered DG CDs of his later one.

To which remastering do refer?  I own Lennie's DG cycle in both the original single performace releases and the first remastered box. I really don't find that the first remastering is anything special. Louder => yes, but better=> not really.  I know it was remastered again a few years ago, but i didn't purchase it.  This is my favorite of all cycles, so if the more recent one is definitive, please let me know. 

FWIW, I actually think that the Lennie Sony-Japan SACD's are light years better than their previous CD incarnations.   

Scott,

I own the second remastered version of the Lenny/DG cycle. Compared to the original individual CDs the sound improved but I wouldn't call it significant.

I also have Japanese pressing of the Lenny's DG M2 and M9. They definitely sound better than any other versions. Still, the improvement is only mild.

I agree that the Japanese Lenny/Sony SACDs are fantastic.

John,

[barry guerrero]

Not sure why there's a controversy here, if there even is one. My comment simply meant that if someone is going to spend $70 for a CD pressing of something that can be had for just over $10, then I certainly would hope that it DOES sound better. My experience with EMI's 'redbook' reissues - such as the Masters series - is that they're usually transferred at a higher level, but don't always sound that much better than the original CD issues (not to mention what one can get out of good British, German or Japanese EMI vinyl pressings). That's a fair statement, isn't it?  I'm perfectly aware that very good sounding recordings have been made in the past. For my taste, most anything that had been recorded in London's Kingsway Hall or Vienna's Sofien Saal sounds pretty good.  I certainly feel that late analog recordings generally sounded better than the first decade or so of digital recordings. Many of the digital recordings made now are pretty darn good. But it's also not as though man learned how to make decent recordings just this decade. We can all agree on that, right?

[Prospero]

Probably not a disagreement but reflections on the history of recorded performance and different views of sound quality and artistic achievement.

There is a story about Caruso's widow in the mid-1920s. Someone was playing a Caruso record on a wind up gramophone. Caruso's widow heard the strains of her husband's voice from the next room and jumped up in utter shock believing that he had returned from the dead.

Let music flourish wherever and however it can.

Best to all,

Tom in Vermont

[Prospero]

For the record my initial reference to a top EMI analog version is to a good condition original British EMI LP from about 1970, not to a basic CD transfer.

The best of recent SACD remasterings of classic recordings, the Barbirolli M5 and the Klemperer Das Lied being most relevant here, are major issues that capture both beauty and presence of the original tapes in ways that, to my ears, are significantly beyond the standard CDs. And these SACDs capture the sense of space and overtones of the analog originals that open up even more of the achievement of the performances.

The contrast is between analog originals on LP and tape as opposed to standard CD transfers. It is true that CD remastering has improved in a number of ways in recent years, but the emergence of the SACD, at least in specialist markets, shows reasonable dissatisfaction with the limits of the Redbook CD.

A similar improvement can be found on the first Bernstein Mahler series in its SACD incarnation.

The Barbirolli M5 seems to me a more complete performance on the SACD version than on the two or three standard CD versions I have.

In Einsam in Herbst, second song of Das Lied, the hushed oboe and violins, the echoing flute, can be heard in wonder on the Esoteric SACD. And Ludwig's entrance is magical so that you can sense the orchestra and Klemperer listening and breathing with her.  It is marvelous to have such wisdom and beauty made even more palpable for us.

Best to all,

Tom in Vermont

[merlin]

I agree that the Japanese Lenny/Sony SACDs are fantastic.

I have heard a few of these, but to my ears, they sound worse than the remastered DGG CDs of his later cycle.  But certainly they must be better than the original issues.

And I just discovered this at amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphonies/dp/B005SJIP1E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331224330&sr=8-1

and wonder if these are new masterings of the Columiba recordings.

[barry guerrero]

"Let music flourish wherever and however it can."

Sure enough.

[Prospero]

I'm listening to the SACD of the first Bernstein M3 and the sound is quite fine. A mid-hall perspective with lots of ambiance.. The DGG has strong impact, but the earlier one has many virtues of performance and impressive sound at least in the Japanese SACD incarnation.

Best to all,

Tom in Vermont

[barry guerrero]

I prefer Bernstein's earlier recording, mainly because I really struggle with the broad, BROAD tempi of the DG remake - as strong as the playing is. It's too bad that the Vienna performance that was video taped by Unitel didn't have better sound. As a performance, I find that one sort of a compromise between the two. Later issues in that Unitel series had pretty decent sound (and there's that incredible 8th from the Konzerthaus).

The most incredible EMI item I ever owned was a Japanese vinyl pressing of "The Planets" with A. Previn/L.S.O. (Kingsway Hall, I'm sure). I'm pretty sure it was on four sides (at least three). I eventually sold that pressing and made most of my money back. That was decades ago - I hardly remember it.

[Prospero]

Comment on Schnabel Beethoven.

The Pristine remasterings have an astonishing beauty and nuance of sound. These were of course direct to disk 78s, and Andrew Rose has not only removed surface noise but used new software to remove 78 wow and flutter. As for missed notes here and there, the rumor is much exaggerated.

Most of the performances are unsurpasssed, and the sound quality is astonishingly good.

It would, I believe, be an insufficiently informed decision to forgo such musical wisdom in in any era.

Best to all,

Tom in Vermont

[stillivor]

All this is rather why I've got a sufficiently poor ear that the refinemets of the various reproductions don't do anything much for me; I make do with very ordinary equipment.

As Tom says, the spirit giveth life.

I'll always remember a couple of american music students listening to this Barbirolli and one shaking his head and saying "So many mistakes." [apart from the missing bit of horn solo that recently got re-recorded.]


I don't agree with the concept of a best performance.




     Ivor

[John Kim]

This is a great SACD!!!

Possibly the best sounding of all remastered Mahler recordings, it pushes the modern technology of sound recording/remastering to the new level.

Never imagined Barbirolli's Mahler would sound this great? Try this one!

John,

[perotin]

Other than ESOTERIC edition there is EMI TOSHIBA JAPAN's 2SACD (one layer only) release with code: TOGE15018. Does anybody had a chance to compare these two recordings?

BTW I've read somewhere that it's possible to rip SACD layers to DSD files and with using some software there is possibility to listen to high quality files. Would be great to have all available versions of this recording on hard drive with possibility of easy comparing

[perotin]

looks like another SACD version is coming:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Gustav-Mahler-1860-1911-Symphonie-Nr-5/hnum/1054124