Author Topic: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6  (Read 10323 times)

Offline barry guerrero

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Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« on: June 13, 2015, 08:34:15 PM »
Forget that it's Dudamel, and all the alleged 'hype' surrounding him. Please do yourselves a favor and listen to this Mahler 6. If nothing else, check out the 'Alpine' passage in the slow movement ([-58.45] the best it's ever been done!); the entire scherzo (-49.15), and the slow introductory section to the finale (-36.20). The sound quality and the balances are excellent. The playing of the L.A. Phil. is as 'world class' as you're going to hear anywhere. There are just two days left.

http://www.kusc.org/socalsundaynight/lapo/index.aspx

Offline John Kim

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Re: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2015, 02:59:08 AM »
I too like it quite a lot.

I think  it's Dudamel's best Mahler thus far.

John

Offline Leo K

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Re: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2015, 09:41:40 PM »
Thanks for the heads up Barry. I'm VERY excited to hear this. I heard a broadcast of Dudamel conducting the M7 with the Philharmonic Orchestra from 11.14.2013. It was so incredible I had to be peeled off the floor afterwards! Perhaps the middle movements were not as 'dark' or 'night' sounding but at this level of playing who cares? - it added a new appreciation of the M7 I've not felt since hearing Rattle's account with the BPO in 1999. 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 01:56:19 AM by Leo K »

Offline AZContrabassoon

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Re: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2015, 04:15:43 AM »
I've listened to this twice now. My short review: Bernstein still owns the 6th.

Get the easy part out of the way: the recorded sound is tremendous. Clear as could be. You hear inner voices and other things often (usually) lost in studio and live recordings. The harp, so important in Mahler, is clearly audible - and often lost in every hall. The percussion is very present. There's no distortion and the engineers captured a very natural sound. Bravo.

The orchestral playing is (almost) beyond criticism. Intonation, phrasing, articulation are exquisitely handled and immaculate. Not one bit inferior to the big Mahler orchestras in the world. I especially liked the generous, appropriate, and beautiful use of string portamento.

Movement I: the opening tempo is, for my taste, too quick. Or more, it lacks the heaviness and sense of gravitas that it needs. And in the exposition (repeat taken) Dudamel shows what it is I find irritating about so many conductors of his generation. He seems to think that if he goes really slow at some points it will show that I understand the music better, and that it's more deeply felt. No, what it shows is that you don't know how to keep a musical line moving. This constant slowing down to ridiculous speeds, then suddenly going up tempo becomes really, really irritating and obnoxious. One of the masters of this symphony, like Bernstein, doesn't pull the tempo out of shape like taffy and finds far more depth.

II: to each his own I guess, but I prefer the SA order. The Andante is quite beautiful, string playing superb, and that utterly breathtakingly beautiful section in the middle is marvelously handled.

III: too fast, then too slow, then fast. Percussion, especially cymbals too loud. Cowbells sound great! And the closing passage is well done. Contrabassoon sounds great.

IV: Great atmosphere at the opening. Somewhere before the first hammer blow, a trumpet (?) entered early and ensemble got messy for a bit. I need to check with a score, but no time now. But something's not right. But then it seems like the Dude went to sleep, lost focus and direction. I think that's one danger of playing AS - that long, hard last movement is tough after the scherzo, and doing the SA gives the orchestra a bit of a breather. Throughout the finale though, I never felt the impending sense of doom. Never felt a catastrophe in the future. It all sounds right and nice, but the anger and relentless sense of doom that others bring is missing. One very nice thing: in some recordings that last big chord is often ruined a bit by the conductors who give a big, audible upbeat cuing the listener what's coming. Not so here.

Then -- what's wrong with LA audiences? Couldn't you hold the applause for just a few moments and let what you've just been through sink in? Blame the Dude - he could (and should have) held his arms up to keep the audience at bay. Too bad.

So, it goes through all the motions but Mahler needs more. In fact, you can have a lot of wrong notes, worse sound and still have a thrilling performance. That's what Bernstein (all three!), Barbirolli, Karajan, Solti, Tennstedt, Abbado, Mitropoulos and others bring to the table. To them, this symphony is about something; it's a life and death struggle and death wins this time. Dudamel isn't the worst, it's not even bad. More many people who like a lighter Mahler it will serve just fine. And maybe being there live would have projected a different opinion. But I wasn't at all impressed by hearing him in the First live in LA. His recent 7th on DG left me underwhelmed. I just am not yet convinced that Dudamel is a natural Mahler conductor.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2015, 07:58:30 AM »
"to each his own I guess, but I prefer the SA order"

Same here. I listened to this several times, and one of those times I switched the order as I was listening to it. That worked just fine for me.

I know the Bernstein/V.P.O. M6 very well. In fact, I saw them perform M6 in Carnegie - before the recording ever came out. Bernstein is great at the dark sound effects that make M6 more affiliated with Berg and co. However, I don't care for Bernstein's truly fast pace for the opening march, as well as his taking 34 minutes to make his expressionistic point with the finale. It may be heavy and loud, but I just find that his finale sounds somewhat 'bogged down' to me. I greatly preferred a performance of M6 with the V.P.O. that I saw with Bychkov conducting.

What I like about the Dudamel finale is that while on the hand the music surrounding the hammer strokes isn't overwhelmingly powerful (actually, I really like the way he did the section between the two strokes - the passage I call, "the wild ride of the headless horsemen across the scorched  battlefield"), he does a great job with the final Allegro 'charge' section (located after the last sounding of the offstage cowbells). For me, his finale went by in an almost seamless, "what the hell was that!?!" kind of manner.

Regardless, I greatly look forward to the cd release.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 08:13:00 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline John Kim

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Re: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2015, 01:02:30 PM »
> Regardless, I greatly look forward to the cd release.

Wait ....has the concert been recorded for a future release??

Offline John Kim

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Re: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2015, 01:06:50 PM »
I second Barry's observation about the Lenny/VPO M6. I find the opening march too fast, which itself is OK but when set against the 34 min. long Finale it just doesn't make a good balance. I'd much prefer 24-31 mi. , or 25-33 min. proportion. Also, the playing in I. is not as secure as in the rest of the performance, perhaps as a result of the breathtaking speed Lenny adopts. Overall, I prefer Lenny's old NYPO recording. When I feel like going for a swift I. I listen to Levi/ASO version that is like 22-31.5 min. proportion.

John

Offline John Kim

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Re: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2015, 01:08:50 PM »
Let's not forget the superb recent rendition by Markus Stenz. It has everything - balance, nuance, refinement, tempo, dynamics, and great sonics. I just can't imagine a better M6th.

Offline AZContrabassoon

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Re: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2015, 03:25:11 PM »
I haven't heard anything in the Stenz series - yet. Will wait for the budget priced boxed set to come out (you know it will!). I do prefer more of a slow death march in the opening movement - like Barbirolli, but that very likely is because that was the first M6 I heard some 45 years ago and his tempo was imprinted on the brain. I saved the Dudamel and will give another listen - if only for the extraordinary quality of the orchestral playing. I've heard LA do Mahler with Mehta, Previn, Giulini, Rattle, and several guest conductors and good as they were they never seemed to cross over into that exalted group of great Mahler orchestras like Chicago, New York, Pittsburgh, London, Vienna or Berlin. But something good is happening there; the playing on this M6 is as good as anything I've ever heard on or off record.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2015, 06:10:35 PM »
Of recent vintage, you might also like the Pappano one on EMI. His opening march isn't as slow as Barbirolli's, but it's definitely slower and more deliberate than usual.

Offline John Kim

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Re: Last two days to listen to Dudamel/L.A. Phil M6
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2015, 02:56:36 AM »
I second Barry on Pappano.

Pappano and Stenz are the only recent recordings I'd keep on my deck.

But I will also look forward the Dudamel if they recorded the concert.

John

 

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