B.G.'s thoughts on Haitink/Pentatone M8

[barryguerrero]

With the single exception of the final section of Part II, "alles vergaengliche", the Haitink M8 ranges from very good to outstanding. It's a pity that Haitink dispatches the orchestral postlude so swiftly. But there are many highlights to compensate.

The cast of soloists - including the tenor - is mostly very good, with Part II's passage of the "Penitant Women" being particularly excellent. The childrens chorus sounds much bigger than usual, while ALL of the offstage brass parts at the end of Part I are perfectly audible. While not overwhelming, the Concertgebouw's organ lends plenty of support. These are a lot of pluses here, including the famed acoustics of the Concertgebouw.

Russell had made a comparison to the A. Wit/Warsaw Phil. M8 (Naxos). It seems to me that a near perfect M8 would be Haitink up through "Blicket auf", and then use Wit (or Stenz or Bertini) for the final "alles vergaengliche" passage.

I can also see why, in 1971, most people would have chose the Solti. He certainly has the better ending to Part II. But the Haitink M8 - particularly in this Pentatone reincarnation - is so much more 'musical' (to me, anyway).

Final thought: It's incredible that such a powerful and complicated work as Mahler 8 should have received such solid recordings early on: Horenstein ('59), Abravanel ('63), Bernstein ('66), Kubelik ('70), Haitink ('71), Solti ('71), Wyn Morris ('72) and Bernstein/VPO ('75). Amazing, isn't it?

[waderice]

Barry, glad you like the Pentatone Haitink.  Acoustically, the Concertgebouw has it all over the Sofiensaal for recording a work such as this.  And yes, I felt that Haitink was inclined "to get the darn thing over with as soon as possible" as you did.  Did you think the soloists to be a little too closely miked as I did?

Wade

[barryguerrero]

No, I thought the soloists weren't too close. I've heard much worse for that problem. Then again, I'm listening only in 2 channel.

[Settembrini]

And yes, I felt that Haitink was inclined "to get the darn thing over with as soon as possible" as you did.

That sounds about right. Haitink has stated that he hates the Mahler 8. He only performed it twice and felt pressured into it both times. Lucky for him, and for us, his Berlin cycle was terminated before he had to conduct it a third time..

[waderice]

He only performed it twice.

Is his second performance available as a recording?  (I'm just curious to see which of the two performances is "better".  )

Wade

[barryguerrero]

This hasn't been put out on dvd yet, but the whole thing is on Youtube. He doesn't do the ending to Part II nearly so quickly this time. They're also using a Wuhan chau gong (tam-tam) at this point. Once again, he has a good cast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjbc5qrFJK8

To me, it makes little difference if he likes it or not. It only matters - to me - if he has does a good job. I've heard much worse from people who supposedly like or love the piece. Personally, I think a certain amount of objectivity and detachment is necessary to do the job properly - and, there's definitely such a thing as loving a piece of music to death. As Mahler said himself, late in his life in N.Y., a conductor is little more than a necessary evil.

[Roland Flessner]

Since I've just surveyed the M8s I have on hand, a brief summary:

Rattle, Boulez, Sinopoli and Abbado/Berlin all struck me as having cast, SQ problems or both.They're at risk of donation to open up some shelf space.

Chailly is very well recorded, but Ben Heppner sounds thinner than on the fine Colin Davis/BSRO recording, and he's not the only problem with the cast.

Recordings in my top rank: Ozawa is very fine, with Gwynne Howell outstanding as Pater Profundus. Peter Lika also sings a fine PP for Gielen, overall a distinguished performance. Shaw/Atlanta is more than respectable, kind of a sleeper. Zinman and Inbal/Frankfurt are very fine. I remember liking Tennstedt, but this is really an outstanding recording in every way, including a fine cast, far better than usual SQ from EMI, a particularly enthusiastic children's choir, and intense engagement from the podium, start to finish.

Haitink is indeed very good, with somewhat dated SQ (redbook). I didn't get around to Kubelik this time around, but he deserves his legendary status.

That's not every recording I listened to this time around, but there you have it.

[barryguerrero]

Thank you on sharing your thoughts, Roland. I'm wondering if you own either the J. Nott or M. Stenz M8's in your arsenal (I like them both).

For me, if you could graft the very final track from either the Bertini, Stenz, Wit, or Nott recordings on to the Haitink, you might have something close to the perfect M8. Better yet, just line those all in a row and play the ending over and over   

[Roland Flessner]

I have Stenz, but not Nott. I wasn't crazy about Stenz when I listened to it near the beginning of my most recent M8 obsession, but I just spot checked it and thought it quite good. I'd have to listen all the way through to be fair.

As Emerson wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

OT but fun, I'm sure I'm not the only forum participant with unorthodox listening habits. For about a week, I was listening to M8 every night, then after a decent interval, switching over to Count Basie. Variety is the spice of life!

[barryguerrero]

I'm playing the solo part on "Makin' Whoopee" in the arrangement for Count Basie's. It can be played on either tuba or bass trombone. I played it on cimbasso tonight and would like to use the cimbasso in concert. The director wants to hear it on tuba. Either way, I get the solo part. Cool, eh?

[Roland Flessner]

Very cool! I had never heard of a cimbasso.

Part of my Saturday morning ritual is to spin vinyl while I'm ironing shirts. A couple weeks ago I grabbed "Basie Jam #2," an LP I've owned since college but hadn't listened to in a long time. Fine album, and I especially admired the trombone playing of Al Grey.

Old favorites include Oscar Peterson (heard him twice here in Chicago), Stan Getz, Bill Evans, Bobby Hutcherson, Benny Carter, Joe Pass and Ray Brown (just to name a few). I used to listen to jazz only occasionally, but now I play it just about every day.

We might want to start a new OOT thread inviting people to discuss their non-classical obsessions . . .