Haitink/CSO M3 receives 7/8 rating from D.H. - I couldn't agree more.

[John Kim]

Amphissa,

I agree Haitink has made several uninspired recordings; BPO/Philips M3rd, M6th, RCO/Philips M8th come to my mind, but there are other Haitink recordings that are decent to good, sometimes pretty good to excellent, especially live ones. Like any conductor, he has his weakness and strength, so your points are well taken.

John,

[barry guerrero]

What can we learn from all this? The point isn't to simply beat up on Haitink. The point is that we should never polarize when it comes to performers who are simply reproducing other people's music. We should never categorically state that everything by so- and-so is fabulous; or, that everything by the same so-and-so is terrible. We need to evalute each performance and recording on its own terms, on not in accordance to how we personally feel about such-and-such artist. That only clouds the issue. There should be no sacred cows. That's why I say that any of these people are only as good as the very last time that they performed or recorded somebody else's music. Of course, anybody can have an off day.

Barry

[Damfino]

Though I defended Haitink's early recordings, I just realized that I have no other recordings by him, other than his original Mahler boxset and the Christmas concerts and a couple of the BPO Mahler recordings (and one Bruckner symphony).  I still consider him an important Mahler pioneer, in that his was one of the first complete cycles to be recorded.  However, I cannot think of any other composer, or period in which he specializes.

Aside from his Mahler recordings, I guess I just regard him as a competent conductor, but one who seldom produces a definitive or "great" performance, sort of like, say, Eugene Ormandy.

I still do not grasp the concept of his RCO recordings being good in spite of Haitink. 

[Amphissa]

Barry, if you diss my sacred cow, you will go to hell. Don't diss my sacred cow.

 

[Leo K]

Barry, if you diss my sacred cow, you will go to hell. Don't diss my sacred cow.

 

 

Actually, I have really enjoyed this thread...great discussion.

--Leo

[barry guerrero]

"I still do not grasp the concept of his RCO recordings being good in spite of Haitink"

I do, but let's just call them what they are at a face value: fast (or faster) performances with few gratuitous ritards thrown in. This is not only true of his Mahler, but pretty much everthing that he recorded earlier on with the Concertgebouw. They give the impression of someone staying out the way of the orchestra, and just letting them play the music as they already know it. And with regards to the Concertgebouw, there was most definitely a strong Mahler tradition left over from Mengelberg and Van Beinum. Even Jochum recorded a decent "DLvdE" with the Concertgebouw.

[nickmolland]

I recently discovered that the first M3 I ever heard live was Haitink conducting the LPO in 1970 - all I can recall is being thrilled by the live sound of the opening horns, but I don't think I can necessarily blame Haitink for the lack of any other memories after 37 years!

Latest hearing though was last night at the newly refurbished RFH, the Philharmonia conducted by Salonen. It seemed neither fast nor slow, but rather just right in tempo, albeit the very end of both the first and third movements was perceptibly faster than the the median. I'll have to check his LAPO recording to see if he does the same there. Soloist was Michelle deYoung, who I'm happy to report sang with power and taste and no noticeable wobble..... Choir seemed a bit underpowered though, although that may have been because they were surrounded by empty space - the RFH choir stalls would be enough for the M8, I thought!

RFH itself seemed fine, although there were still a few bits unfinished - and numbers of empty seats, which surprised me at first until I though that they were probably unused corporate seats - bah!

Nick