Horenstein/LSO/Unicorn Mahler 3rd to be reissued on SACD.

[John Kim]

https://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Mahler-1860-1911_000000000019272/item_Symphony-No-3-Jascha-Horenstein-London-Symohony-Orchestra-Norma-Proctor-A-Ambrosian-Singers-etc-2SACD-Hybrid_10096001?fbclid=IwAR20_PX-bzY2IPoGSRXZXNtYYe57XBMdp2MJ1Va2SUsG0DUnuTREC4eQ6Vc

[John Kim]

I never liked the sound of the redbook CD released by Unicorn. So, this is very promising.

[Prospero]

You should listen to the original Nonesuch LPs. And in surround sound on the original tapes. Also, the M1 on Nonesuch. Maybe a really fine SACD will bring back some of the originals. I do, though, wonder if today's engineers have adequate live performance experience that they try to emulate.

The Horenstein M3 and  M1 CDs that have been available are so pallid that you can hardly recognize the performances.

I know people think CD is supposed to be an improvement. But my experience is that a great many LPs and even 78s have a vividness that CDs seldom approach for me. Not all, but many. The Dorati Stravinsky  Song of the Nightingale with the LSO, for instance, on an clean original 1963 Mercury disc mastered by George Piros is astounding. The sense of orchestra space, layout, immediacy,and timbre is deep and nuanced in ways I virtually never get on CD or even SACD. A minority view, I suppose, but my experience.


Tom in Vermont

[Leo K]

I have the original LP, Unicorn CD and HDTT releases. The LP and HDTT are my preferred go-to's for this legendary recording.

I really, really wish we could have Jerry Bruck's minimally-miked recording tapes from the original Unicorn recording sessions. I'm sure that would be revelatory.

[barryguerrero]

When I pressed Tony Duggan on this very issue (because I think the cd issue sounds awful), he told that there had been two sets of mikes and two recorders set up at the sessions. I find that believable because the CD's and the Nonesuch LP's sound like two totally different recordings - not just a matter of sound levels. Lo and behold, the Horenstein M3 that got issued in that strange box set of Mahler symphonies (var. conductors and orchestras) the sound resembled that of the Nonesuch LP's.

[waderice]

Years ago, I checked the Nonesuch LPs out of the library, but didn’t purchase them at the time, as I was on an extreme budget for buying classical recordings.  Unfortunately, when funds became more plentiful, I bought the recording as a pre-recorded Advent Dolby-B cassette, and when I got into reel to reel, lo and behold, it was issued on a pre-recorded Barclay-Crocker Dolby B-encoded reel tape.  With those facts in mind, I don’t know whether or not it was a mistake on my part for not purchasing the original Nonesuch LPs, as I cannot totally remember how good they sounded, considering that I have both the cassette and reel versions.  And not that long ago, I purchased a second generation CD copy of the English Elektra issue from ArkivMusic, and the sound is pretty poor.

The irony of all this is that probably most everyone here (except me) doesn’t know how the cassette and/or the reel versions sound against the Nonesuch LPs.  And I cannot totally remember how the Nonesuch LPs sounded, except that I do recall that the pressings weren’t that good, at least quality control-wise, even if sonically decent.

Has anyone here ever heard the original English Elektra issue LPs and compared them against the U.S. Nonesuch LP issue?

If and when someone reports positively on the SACD issue, once it comes out and isn’t too expensive, I’ll likely get it.  Meanwhile, I’ll stick with my B-C reel and Advent cassette, both in great analog sound!

Wade

[shawn]

Hello Thomass, the Solti was recorded in 1982, but I wouldn't rank it among the reference versions. The Chicago Symphony play with gusto, but the conducting is soulless. Whatever one thinks of Horenstein's, it has vision. I'm not completely mad about it, even the best performance trumps sound, but it's not to my taste. The updated sound makes me curious, though.

[Leo K]

One of the things I really like about the performance is Horenstein doesn't rush the climaxes, which gives a kind of 'epic' quality to the proceedings. Also, the middle movements move along without dragging the tempo, with lots of nice prickley detail sprinkled throughout.

There are more M3's recorded since that bring out the 'chaos' of the first movement better and more exciting overall. In contrast Horenstein's M3 sounds like a lean machine, not wholly and wild like Bernstein's (Sony and DG), Asahina, and many others.

For it's time I can see why it became a classic since it was one of a few to choose from.  I think I prefer Scherchen's (1960) if I was to choose from that era.

[shawn]

I was referring to Solti's recording of M3 with the LSO from 1968.

Sorry, my mistake  Solti in London is usually better than in Chicago.

[shawn]

Hello Thomass, if you like Solti in Mahler, you have my blessing, to each his own. Usually I'm not one to follow common held beliefs, I'm too stubborn for that  I have given Solti's outings a go many times, sometimes out of annoyance because 'everyone' was criticizing his Mahler. But it's not a conductor I come back to very often. At first Solti sounds impressive, imposing, his orchestras know how to communicate. But in the long run, Solti's almost constant driving force becomes exasperating rather than heart-warming 

This is not a fact, just an opinion, I don't want Mahler in my face the whole time.