New critical edition of Mahler 4 being released from Universal Edition

[erikwilson7]

https://slippedisc.com/2022/01/mahlers-most-performed-symphony-gets-a-critical-makeover/

Link includes a video from I believe one of the editors of the new score.

How significant is this really? This apparently encapsulates the changes Mahler made to this symphony shortly before he became fatally ill, never realized until now.

There was an interesting comment regarding the latest critical edition of Mahler 5 that was made into an article as well this morning: https://slippedisc.com/2022/01/why-mahler-needs-to-be-corrected/

We finally get some modern insight there on how fast the Adagietto should be.

[barryguerrero]

I totally disagree. I don't like either the Walter or Mengelberg rendition of the Adagietto, regardless of what Mahler's alleged intentions were (how the hell would they know!). The only thing that is factual are the tempo descriptions that Mahler wrote in the score. Nobody bothers to read them. In the Adagietto of the 5th, both 'langsam' and 'sehr langam' appear at least several times. It's there in black and white print. Yet, the slow movement to Mahler 6 is marked "andante moderato"  and the word 'langsam' isn't mentioned anywhere in the movement - not even once. Where's the outrage when conductors make the slow movement to M6 into a Brucknerian adagio?    .     .     .   I have one other gripe.

Who says that a 'love song' can't be very slow, or that a funereal dirge can't come closer to a gentle walking tempo? It's subjective silliness based on little more than hearsay.

[erikwilson7]

I prefer between 9-10 mins for the Adagietto, closer to 9.

I was doing some other further reading on this new edition of M4 and apparently most of the changes are in articulation, bowing, some tempo stuff, etc.
So nothing too major.

[barryguerrero]

Of course. The majority of listeners won't even notice. Only ones who are very familiar with the piece will notice something. I loath it when commentators toss around "composer's intention". How can anybody really know anyone's intention, unless that person makes it very clear in writing, or in person. I'm convinced Mahler didn't fully understand what he himself had composed, half of the time. There are many things he said 'off the cuff', that make me think that. Regardless, the score to the Adagietto not only has "langsam" and "sehr langsam" written in it, he also wrote "Molto Adagio" twice - once at the beginning, and once at the return of the "A" section (the recap). "Molto Adagio" doesn't sound very swift to me.

[erikwilson7]

It all depends on what is getting the beat / pulse. Molto adagio on quarter notes, half notes, etc. I'm just throwing ideas around. I think both ways are technically valid.

It's interesting because Allegretto is just a bit slower than straight Allegro, so is Adagietto a bit slower than Adagio?

It's all relative of course.