BBC 3 broadcast of M8 from St. Paul's Cathedral happening today!

[barry guerrero]

On the left coast, the BBC 3 radio broadcast of M8 from St. Paul's (London) is happening at 12 noon - today! As of right now, that's two hours away. FYI.

Barry

[barry guerrero]

I'm listening sporadically now (I'm at work). Obviously, the sound is a bit "boomy" in quality, and the balances aren't always perfect. But I sure like the performance - nice & lively! Gergiev may not be perfect, but I'm so tired of dead sounding Mahler.

I like how the choirs sound far forward - including the children's chorus - while the vocal soloists sound like they're out in another county. If only we could get the vocal soloists to just go away altogether (just kidding!  )

[alpsman]

I have a dvd with M8 and Gergiev. It is with the Rotterdam Ph. in the Concertgebouw hall Amsterdam in 2005. Among the soloists Brewer, Isokoski, Remmert.......
The timing for all the symphony is 79min. I have not listen yet all the concert, but seems to me that will be great-sound and all.
Full opinion later.

[alpsman]

get the vocal soloists to just go away altogether (just kidding!

I also make the same joke. Come on everyone, we must confess that we like most the instrumental Mahler.Of course a lot of vocal music is great and dear to us: mezzo M3, finale M4, DLVDE, Wunderhorn, Kinder, Ruckert and more.
But i can't stand M8( vocal soloists). This is a reason that I missed a great concert, and I am greatly regret it: M8/Welser Most/GMJO.

[barry guerrero]

Criticism of Gergiev's M8 from St. Paul's seems to be mostly positive. I know that I really enjoyed listening to it. I certainly didn't get to hear ALL of it.  But I heard enough to know that it  had a very natural flow from beginning to end, with no tempo modifications that sounded as though they were a deliberate attempt to impede the flow, or draw specific attention to this or that detail. The cast of soloists were pretty much all Russians, and they were surprisingly good. Then again, I like the fact that the soloists sounded a bit farther back. The tenor was pretty good, which is by far the most critical vocal part of all.

The biggest complaint I've read about is the one that would be the most obvious: the farther back that one was seated away from the action, the more muddled the sound become. But some critics felt that the boomy acoustics actually helped in giving a "heavenly" quality to Mahler's message. The LSO Live recording will be interesting indeed.

Anyway, you can listen to the BBC 3 broadcast for the next seven days, so check it out!

Barry

[alpsman]

The Gergiev M8 I have in dvd with Rotterdam philh.,is very good indeed.Tempos are fleet,but not too much, phrasing is crisp. You can not feel bored. Only some mystery in the prelude of the second movement, is missing for me and greater uplift in the final bars. I think Chailly with RCOA in the Mahlerfeest 1995 box is more succesful.
As for the sound it's great. The concertgebouw is terrific hall.
Recordings in big churches are destined to failure,in these works.

[barry guerrero]

The Rotterdam Phil. has a really nice sounding gong, which can you can hear quite easily at end of Part II on that DVD (I have a burnt copy of it). 

[alpsman]

Yes very nice sound gong, cymbals and percussion( grancassa, timpani) and celesta. And the balance between voices, chorus and orchestra is very good.

[techniquest]

I'm listening to the Gergiev / LSO broadcast just now - love the fluffed entry by one of the ladies in the choir right at the start!! 

[alpsman]

Barry,
as I see you are an expert for gongs and various percussions.
So i want to discuss a little this topic.

I see that Wiener philharmoniker uses a small, tea tray, set of cymbals. Solti was a little ironic about this in a rehearsal I have seen.
Also SFSO with Tilson Thomas uses that type of cymbals, and completelly ruined an otherwise fantastic R+J Tchaikovsky i had attend.
On the other hand Berliner Philh. uses a very sonorous pair of cymbals to nice effect.

Your opinion?

[barry guerrero]

I see that Wiener philharmoniker uses a small, tea tray, set of cymbals. Solti was a little ironic about this in a rehearsal I have seen.

I haven't noticed that their cymbals are particularly small. However, I have noticed that they exclusively use dark-sounding (and clunky sounding) old Zildjian cymblas. I generally like my cymbals to sound bright and immediate (Sabians), and my tam-tams to be dark and profound sounding (Wuhans). It's funny to me that Solti would pay much attention to their cymbals. Solti strikes me as not being particularly good with percussion, exception for works that use lots of cymbals and bass drum.

Also SFSO with Tilson Thomas uses that type of cymbals, and completelly ruined an otherwise fantastic R+J Tchaikovsky i had attend.

Similar to the cymbal part in the finale of his 4th symphony, Tchaikovsky's "R&J" Overture has a number of rapid strokes on the cymbals. It wouldn't be easy to execute those cleanly on a big pair of cymbals. They probably should alternate between two pairs on that particular work.

On the other hand Berliner Philh. uses a very sonorous pair of cymbals to nice effect

The Berlin Phil. seems to be pretty good with percussion in general, especially their timpani. However, I've noticed that they've made their fair share of counting mistakes with Mahler in their not-so-distant past (I feel that the BPO knows their Mahler much better these days). I'm also not crazy about their rattle snake sounding tambourine, which all German orchestras seem to favor (must be a particular make that's popular over there). They have a very good sounding gong that seems to speak quite quickly. I'm not sure that it's a Wuhan, but it's at least similar to a Wuhan.

[alpsman]

I haven't noticed that their cymbals are particularly small.

You can see in any of their Neujahr concerts. They use the same, i think, and in another works. They are of small diameter. Solti wants them more louder and refered to them, somehow ironic, as "Mahler" cymbals. These from the last 4dvd anniversary box, where there is a most interesting reherseal from 1995 in Musikverein. They play an exciting Harry Janos and Rakoczy march with splendid percussion.

On the other hand, as you can see in various dvds, Berliners uses cymbals with large diameter and very sonorous. Particularilly good erxample Jansons Fantastique in European concert 2001 in Constantinople.

[Psanquin]

The Gergiev M8 I have in dvd with Rotterdam philh.,is very good indeed.Tempos are fleet,but not too much, phrasing is crisp. You can not feel bored. Only some mystery in the prelude of the second movement, is missing for me and greater uplift in the final bars. I think Chailly with RCOA in the Mahlerfeest 1995 box is more succesful.
As for the sound it's great

.

Casually I watched it yesterday. My copy is an Avi file transferred to DVD so the sound quality is not good. Too much compressed, a pity.

I enjoyed this Rotterdam Eighth. Fortunately it is not the non-stop reading that would be expected from Gergiev. An intense and at the same time balanced reading. Regrettably in some keypoints -accende lumen sensibus, reexposition of the veni creator- the reading is too cautious and four-squared.

What do you think about the tenor of this Rotterdam Eighth? I have enjoyed his voice but in the 2nd Part he is too much melodramatic.

[alpsman]

What do you think about the tenor of this Rotterdam Eighth? I have enjoyed his voice but in the 2nd Part he is too much melodramatic.

I agree. Althought I have already express my dislike for the solo vocal parts of M8. So my criticism concern the balance between solo voices and orchestra. I prefer the voices to be as little as possible into the music canvas. In real event it is this way.

[barry guerrero]

You can see in any of their Neujahr concerts. They use the same, i think, and in another works. They are of small diameter

Now that you mention it, I have noticed that the cymbals are on the small side during those New Years Concert presentations. They obviously underplay the percussion throughout those concerts, except at spots where they want to deliberately draw attention to the kitchen department (the bass drum in "Trisch-Trasch" polka; the gong in "Perpetual Motion", etc.). I always like the snare drum roll-off at the start of the Radetzky March. By the way, I've had trouble getting snare drummers to duplicate that particular roll-off when conducting Radetzky March. I usually bring a boom-box and a cd to the first rehearsal, so that they can listen to what it is they're playing.

Barry