Author Topic: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7  (Read 10869 times)

Offline barry guerrero

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very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« on: July 01, 2008, 07:44:12 AM »
Gergiev's upcoming LSO M7 release will be among the fastest ever. Timings are such: I - 20:47; II - 13:43; III - 9:07; IV - 11:45; V - 16:13.

Click here to listen to a brief excerpt of the first movement and finale.

http://lso.co.uk/detailedrecordinginfo&showdetailstype=recording&detailID=188
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 08:09:35 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline John Kim

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 05:01:23 PM »
The short timings for II. & V.  look pretty good.

If only LSO engineers have found a way to get decent sonics from the dry Barbican Church - I was not impressed with the sound quality that they gave to Gergiev M6th.

BTW, I saw Schwarz/SSO/Artek M7th CD at Silver Platter store here in Seattle (but I didn't pick it up because I wanted to hear Barry's opinion first  :)).

John,

Offline alpsman

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 10:21:48 PM »
Abbado plays always these symphony fleety, espesially th first movement. I like that, it's somehow neo-classical.
I listen recently a recording with Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester 1999 and it's very good.
timings 20:18-
          14:46-
          8:20-
         11:36-
         17:59

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 08:13:17 AM »
It's interesting that Abbado always takes the third movement scherzo so fast, when Mahler specifically writes some modifying comment like, "aber nicht zu schnell", or "nicht zu fliessand".

John, I probably won't be picking up the Artek M7, since the Gergiev is coming just around the corner. The difference?   .      .      .    I'll get a promotional copy of the Gergiev, while I'll be lucky to even find the Schwarz M7 around here.

Barry

Offline John Kim

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2008, 04:05:05 PM »
It's interesting that Abbado always takes the third movement scherzo so fast, when Mahler specifically writes some modifying comment like, "aber nicht zu schnell", or "nicht zu fliessand".

John, I probably won't be picking up the Artek M7, since the Gergiev is coming just around the corner. The difference?   .      .      .    I'll get a promotional copy of the Gergiev, while I'll be lucky to even find the Schwarz M7 around here.

Barry
Next time I go there I might pick up the Schwarz M7th. I sampled audio tracks of the Artek M7th on their website and didn't find it particularly impressive. But you never know...

John,

Offline John Kim

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 04:07:43 PM »
Abbado plays always these symphony fleety, espesially th first movement. I like that, it's somehow neo-classical.
I listen recently a recording with Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester 1999 and it's very good.
timings 20:18-
          14:46-
          8:20-
         11:36-
         17:59
When Abbado conducted it in Edinburg, England, the first movt. clocked under 20 min. It was a super fast performance.

John,

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2008, 04:56:18 PM »
I sampled audio tracks of the Artek M7th on their website and didn't find it particularly impressive. But you never know...

I only saw a sample for the third movement scherzo, which I thought sounded quite good.

When Abbado conducted it in Edinburg, England, the first movt. clocked under 20 min. It was a super fast performance.

I don't get that, as there's absolutely no indication in the score that the first movement should go like the wind. In fact, Mahler simply writes "Allegro con fuoco" (with fire) at rehearsal figure 6 - the main body of the movement. "With fire" doesn't mean lickity-split. More to the point, there's a spot that indicates that the movement CAN'T go super fast. To be specific, the 10th bar of rehearsal figure 14 indicates, "a tempo (sempre l'stesso)"; with the added comment that a half-note before, now equals a quarter-note. In other words, there should be no perception of the music slowing down at all. Abbado - and many other conductors - execute a massive slow-down there. Yet, the score very specifically says not to do that!!! The music simply goes from cut-time to 4/4 meter there. One moment your conducting two beats to the bar, and in the next moment, you simply conduct four beats to the bar - with no change in tempo.

Even more to the point, the first movement of M7 is one Mahler's very most complicated in terms of polyphony - contrapuntal lines, in other words - and harmony (which all happens at a relatively quick harmonic tempo). To me, Boulez's 23 minutes sounds just right.

Barry

Offline sperlsco

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2008, 05:11:46 PM »
I sampled audio tracks of the Artek M7th on their website...
John,

It is interesting that Artek let's you download the entire Scherzo movement, instead of providing 30 second snippets of each movement.  I find 30 second snippets to be completely usless to my purchase decision-making process.  I much prefer this method.  BRAVO!

Of course, I would buy a new M7 performance regardless (and just did - thanks for the reminder).   
Scott

Offline sperlsco

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2008, 05:20:34 PM »
I don't get that, as there's absolutely no indication in the score that the first movement should go like the wind. I...

Even more to the point, the first movement of M7 is one Mahler's very most complicated in terms of polyphony - contrapuntal lines, in other words - and harmony (which all happens at a relatively quick harmonic tempo). To me, Boulez's 23 minutes sounds just right.

Barry

Generally, I agree with this.  Kubelick's Audite M7-1 is sub 20' and just sounds too rushed for my taste.  Same with MTT/SFSO at sub 21'.  However, the DVD with Abbado/Lucerne is also sub 20'.  It sounds too fast, but just by a matter of degrees as far as my taste is concerned.  I am certain that the video aspect plays into my response.  Perhaps it is the visual impact of seeing all the musicians swaying to the music.  ;D
Scott

Offline John Kim

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2008, 06:33:10 PM »
Gergiev's upcoming LSO M7 release will be among the fastest ever. Timings are such: I - 20:47; II - 13:43; III - 9:07; IV - 11:45; V - 16:13.

Click here to listen to a brief excerpt of the first movement and finale.

http://lso.co.uk/detailedrecordinginfo&showdetailstype=recording&detailID=188
My personal favorite of M7th is a live concert from Amsterdam in 2000 by Jansons/RCO. A beautifully proportioned in flexible tempos, sensibly phrased and played version that has never been matched by any other recording or concert since. And yes, the first movt. clocked just over 23 min. If only Janons can reproduce what he and RCO had done that night - why don't they record the symphony for their own label??

John,

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2008, 08:38:49 AM »
If only Janons can reproduce what he and RCO had done that night - why don't they record the symphony for their own label??

I'll bet anything that the RCO DOES issue it - maybe right after their current one, which is the "Rite Of Spring".

Barry

Offline John Kim

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Re: very fast timings for upcoming Gergiev/LSO M7
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2008, 06:20:58 PM »
I would rank this M7th and a M5th he did in Pittsburg in 90's among the greatest Mahler concerts I ever heard. I mean, on radio  ;)

John,

 

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