Mahler 2 on DVD - Haitink, Boulez, Bernstein

[John F]

Hi everyone. 

This is my first post though I read through the threads regularly.  I'm not a Mahler expert by any means but I was introduced to his music several years back (it was the Fourth - the slow movement was what captured me, at the time I didn't care for the finale, though).  Since then, some of his symphonies I still struggle to appreciate (i.e. Six, Seven and Eight) while others I love, especially (lately) the Second.  I've acquired a few recordings - I really enjoy Gielen's - both the recorded sound and the interpretation to give you an idea of my taste although I think I find more to enjoy than not in recordings of this work. 

I caught the tail-end of a performance on PBS a while ago (may have been Slatkin conducting) and now I think I'd like to see a perfomance on video - I've got a birthday gift card just burning a hole in my pocket.  Brings me to my question:  I notice recordings on DVD by Boulez, Abbado, Bernstein and Haitink.  Based on what I've read here, I think I'm sold on the Boulez (and will avoid the Abbado) but I'd appreciate some guidance on the last two.  I prefer a video in which the orchestra dominates with appropriate spot-lighting of various sections - not endless footage of the conductor (may rule out Bernstein, I don't know).  You also get a couple other works on Haitink and Bernstein too.

Any help on the video, sonics and interpretation is greatly appreciated.

Regards,
John

[Damfino]

I have three of the four you mention, and I used to have a Bernstein version on laserdisc. It has been so long since I have heard/seen it, I cannot really comment on it.

Of the remaining three, I like them all. The Haitink is the oldest, and has the most static camera work, and is shot for 4:3 televisions screens. It's a good version of the symphony, and Sylvia McNair is at her most most radiant in the soprano part. the soloists (Jard Van Nes and McNair) stand next to Haitink's podium. Also, there are no subtitles, which I find annoying, as you may be showing the video to someone unfamiliar with the work. It features Dolby Digital and DTS sound.

The Abbado is shot in 16:9 aspect ratio, and will fill up an HD TV screen better than Haitink. I thought it a good performance as well, and both soloists are good. Abbado has placed the soloists (Anna Larson and Eteri Gvazava)  back with the orchestra in front of the chorus.  I have always felt that the finale (after the chorus is done) was rather rushed in this performance. Also, I don't like the show-offy quality of the Lucerne performers in Abbado's videos. They always seem to be jumping around and swaying to add "visual excitement" to the performance. After a while, one tires of their gyrations and the very busy camera. Strangely, at the work's end, the audience seems sort of lackluster and not very enthusiastic.

The Boulez is also shot in 16:9 and also features Dolby Digital and DTS sound. Of the three, I like this one the best. I have the HD DVD of it, and the picture is amazingly sharp, and the multi channel sound quite vivid. The soloists are fine here as well (Petra Lang and Diana Damrau) and they are placed back as in Abbado's DVD.  They blend beautifully in the parts where they sing together. For the most part, the director does a great job of highlighting the orchestra members who are in the thick of the action. The Berlin Staatskapelle is becoming one of my favorite orchestras, after hearing them in this and Barenboim's Beethoven cycle. Boulez at 80 almost looks like the work is too much for him, but he hangs in there, and the audience (including Daniel Barenboim) are most appreciative.

All three are good versions of the symphony, and this is one symphony that really works best live, IMO. Though I have all of them, I tend to revisit the Boulez recording the most. Really incredible sound and playing.

[barry guerrero]

Wow, that was excellent coverage!! I would rank them just the same too: Boulez, Abbado, Haitink (and for all the very same reasons). The camera work on the Bernstein cycle is, generally speaking, very thoughtful and excellent. However, the "Resurrection" might be the one and only exception. The constant panning of the dome at Ely Cathedral gets annoying.

The one Bernstein Mahler dvd that is well worth getting, separate from box, is the one that has symphonies 7 & 8. The 8th is particularly outstanding, even with the "splatty" sounding gong at the end.

Barry

[John F]

Thanks for your insights.

On a related note, I was walking through a local used CD store yesterday and I noticed a copy of Mahler's 2nd conducted by Bernstein/LSO on what appears to be a Japanese issue.  I've read that this 2nd is not as good as Bernstein's other recordings primariliy re: sound quality, but I'm wondering if this particular one has any noticeable sound improvement over the other LSO issues.

Thanks.
John

[Psanquin]

John F, That is the same Second as that included in the DG's DVD from Ely Cathedral's

[john haueisen]

John,
It is good to see your first posting, and it was a very valid question you asked.
I have to agree with the others who rank Boulez, Abbado, and Haitink in that order.
There are two other DVDs available too.

If you enjoy young people's concerts, the Philharmonic Orchestra and Choirs of BYC offer a chance to see a very young orchestra and soloists.  Naturally, it's not nearly as polished as any of the other three mentioned, but as I said, if you like to watch young performers this might be a consideration.

Another DVD released in 2007 is Neeme Jarvi, conducting musicians from the Philadelphia Orchestra, New Jersey Symphony, Detroit Symphony, and the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra.
This one is filmed in high definition and 16:9 widescreen.  It's sort of like an All-Star Game, with musicians that Jarvi has invited to join him.  A nice feature is that it is recorded in Riverside Church, a setting that seems to enhance the drama of M2.

My own problem is that I like all performances of M2.  They are like unique individuals we meet:  each has its strengths and weaknesses, but perspective allows us to appreciate all.

When pressed for preferences, I choose Boulez and Abbado for a different reason than most here.  I simply prefer the soloists.  Boulez has the beautiful and talented Diana Damrau, and the very focused Petra Lang.  The Abbado features an almost devout and spiritual Anna Larsson and an ethereal Eteri Gvazava.

I hope that you will later post which M2 you select, and whether you like it.
--John H

[sperlsco]

John F, That is the same Second as that included in the DG's DVD from Ely Cathedral's

I have a Japanese CD release of the M2 Bernstein/London SO as well as the DVD.  Although I believe that they are the same performance, the CD seems to have an overly-enhanced organ which drowns out everything else.  Conversely, the DVD seems to have a LACK of organ. 

[sperlsco]

Abbado ... I have always felt that the finale (after the chorus is done) was rather rushed in this performance.

Boulez...All three are good versions of the symphony, and this is one symphony that really works best live, IMO.

Absolutely agree!

[Dave H]

Let me add one more vote for Boulez--the video is much better than the CD. That said, I don't think any of the available videos contain really great performances of the symphony. Bernstein's LSO recordings was the worst of his three. Abbado's Chicago recording betters anything he did later. Haitink's first version, with the Concertgebouw in great form, is also better than any of his later versions. And speaking personally, I really dislike the production values in all of these DVDs. I think they look terrible, fail to capture the sheer size and grandeur of the music, and force you to focus on what the producer wants you to see rather than what you may want to look at based on what you actually hear. I don't like videos generally--I prefer to listen because I find the videography so inferior and low budget, but these I find especially disappointing as a visual experience. Sorry to be so negative, but that's my opinion.

Dave H

[barry guerrero]

On my Yamaha player, the DVDs come out sounding very good. I find that they sound even better when I set them to Dolby 5.1 (I don't have surround sound playback equipment). Since I can't afford to go out to concerts much anymore, I rather enjoy the "live" experience of many of these DVD's. I'll agree that it's certainly an apples vs. oranges situation, and I would never get rid of my very best CD's of any of these works.

Since I don't have to time to study librettos, I greatly prefer good DVD performances of opera to just plain-old studio recordings for the operas that I'm not already familiar with. I know that that's kind of strange opinion, but there you have it. Time management is very important to me, and I really don't enjoy listening to opera in the car or on a walkman ("Die Frau ohne Schatten" is an exception for me, because the piece is about nothing other than noise from beginning to end). Regardless, I find that I can get more interested in the characters if I can actually see them. That's just me.

[john haueisen]

Not just you, Barry! 
Opera was meant to be seen, as well as heard. 
Strauss' Capriccio is a good illustration of this.  It's an opera about opera, where for the entire opera the characters discuss what is more important:  the music, the words (poetry), the singers, the actors, the impresario, or the audience.
Isn't an opera really a combination of all these factors?
Strauss cleverly leaves the issue unresolved.
For me, DVDs are a wonderful enhancement of opera.  We can watch with whatever subtitles we desire, or sometimes none at all, and we can even back up and see what it was in the original language.
Bravo DVDs!

--John H

[Dave H]

I certainly agree re: opera. The visuals can be an important element. On the other hand, I have the same feeling toward many opera DVDs that I do concert DVDs. The production values are often just plain awful, even leaving aside the demented "vision" of so many of today's producers. The problem, of course, is money. Most opera DVDs are simply one-off souvenirs of a live performance, and while the best really can make you feel as though you were there, most don't come close. And no one can afford to really stage an opera as a first-class, high budget film (even assuming you could get singers who can act and are photogenic enough for their parts). Most filmed opera suffers from the same lack of quality as videos of live performances. With all these faults, I'm still a fan of opera on DVD. It just could be so much better....

Dave H

[john haueisen]

Certainly, Dave is correct about the attitude of producers, and how it can limit what we see in a DVD of a performance.

Regarding Barry's recent comment above, about the growing expensiveness of attending performances, I hope everyone reading this might consider attending a local theater that participates in the "Live From The Met in HD" broadcasts.  In Columbus, Ohio, where our Columbus Symphony Orchestra and Opera Columbus are flirting with bankruptcy, the Met broadcasts offer hope of continued viewing of excellent opera.
"On-the-street" interviews in Times Square, such as those done a couple of weeks ago by Deborah Voight, are using wit and public engagement to draw more newcomers into the world of opera.

Do others have an opportunity to see "Live From the Met in HD" in your local areas?
--John H

[barry guerrero]

Occassionally, we'll have them right in downtown S.F.  But usually their out way out in the suburban boondocks away from S.F. In the bay area, that means having to deal with traffic on bridges and/or tunnels. That's not a lot of fun, and quite expensive in itself.

Barry