Abbado/Fleming/BPO M4 (Revist)

[Leo K]

I didn't care for this M4 the first couple times I heard it, except I did enjoy the Adagio.  Now I'm really warming up to the overall flow.  Overall this M4 is more "low key", but then again there is another (serious?) quality I can't put my finger on yet.  Again, the Adagio is stunning thanks to the BPO strings (yes, them again!).  And I actually really like Fleming's heavier voice in the Finale...her voice is reminscent of Berg's sound world here, and it adds a feeling of darkness to the Finale.   


--Todd

[barry guerrero]

Todd,

I really feel that Fleming sounds much better on the Berg than she does on the Mahler. The first and third movements are very good. The scherzo could be a lot sharper and scarrier.

Barrry

[bluesbreaker]

"And I actually really like Fleming's heavier voice in the Finale...her voice is reminscent of Berg's sound world here, and it adds a feeling of darkness to the Finale."

I think the Finale or the whole M4 has nothing to do with Berg and co. To me, linking M4 with the Second Viennese School is a little out of place.

[Leo K]

Still, the programming of Berg's early songs on the same disk suggests a Viennese stylistic connection to the M4's finale, and Chailly also included Berg's early songs with his M4.  I feel Berg was profoundly influenced by Mahler's orchestral songs.

--Todd

[Leo K]

Todd,

I really feel that Fleming sounds much better on the Berg than she does on the Mahler. The first and third movements are very good. The scherzo could be a lot sharper and scarrier.

Barrry

On revisting this recording twice (in full) tonight, right after the Britten/LSO/BBC...I agree more with Barry this time around...the scherzo doesn't have the bite it should really have, and I listened closely to Renee Fleming, and although I love her voice...perhaps this tone doesn't belong in this symphony...still this is among my favorite M4 finales ever. 

However, she really sails in the Berg songs...incredible rendition!

I have a strange relationship with Abbado's BPO M4...it's not really a stunning M4, yet I keep wanting to go back to it...what gives?  Despite the lack of bite, there is something about that scherzo I can't shake.  The adagio is as stunning as ever here.

--Todd

[john haueisen]

Revisiting the Abbado/Fleming M4, I can clearly see the points made by each of those who posted on this subject.

Barry is right about Fleming sounding better on the Berg, but I think most of this is because we are so accustomed to the soloist sounding more around the usual sounds of a boy soprano (and isn't that the way Mahler intended it?

Then again, Todd found after revisiting it, that the mature female voice, as is done beautifully here by Renee Fleming, gives us a fresh look at M4.  It takes a little time getting used to it, but like hearing a new point of view, it can make you think again about your own beliefs.

Likewise Bluesbreaker questions putting Berg on the same disc with Mahler.  Although Mahler and Berg shared many similarities, the Berg songs would be more at home with the dissonances of M10.   It's probably just a matter of putting 2 Fleming performances together.

As Todd says, give the Abbado/Fleming M4 a revisiting or two.  It can grow on you.  It's "different," but as we all know, different is not necessarily wrong.
--John H

[akiralx]

Todd,

I really feel that Fleming sounds much better on the Berg than she does on the Mahler. The first and third movements are very good. The scherzo could be a lot sharper and scarrier.

Barry

Barry - I recall you said a while ago that you felt the Bertini EMI recording is just better in your view.  One of the reasons I never went for the Abbado. 

I wonder if Kobayashi has recorded it with the Czech PO - I'm not going to risk Macal after disliking his Dvorak.  One I really like is Bav.RSO/Colin Davis. 

I recently reheard the Boulez DG SACD and found it a little too quick (and Juliane Banse is not good) - for a quick M4 Haitink's last one is much better, I think.  Dave Hurwitz was critical of letting him do another (which I can relate to) but at least this version was quite a bit different and fresher than the earlier ones.

[barry guerrero]

The Macal M4 is really very good - possibly my very favorite overall recording of M4. For me, the soprano is really important, and Kaune is excellent. My bet is that you wouldn't be disappointed by it. Scott will also vouch for the Macal M4

Barry

[Leo K]

Agree on the Macal M4...it is pehaps the best sounding M4 as well...very clear and detailed, with wonderful presence of the hall.  The adagio on that one is stunning.

--Todd