Are Mahlerites LOSERS??

[Michael]

Thank you, James!
What I say now I am not saying out of an attempt to brag or anything.  People have told me that I have a lot of insight into things and life in general.  I take meaning from everything, which I suppose comes from my blindness--and the effect it has had on my life--and is one of the reasons I do not particularly care for today's society where there seems to be a prevalence of meaningless interaction.
Last week I was in conversation with someone many years my senior, and he told me what I already mentioned above, but added this: having increased insight into things can lead to difficult findings.
Mahler was one of those people who, I think, looked deeply into the meaning behind everyday life and the complex questions associated with it.
I for one think the reason I enjoy Mahler's music is because it faces head-on the vital questions of life and death, love and loss, triumph and tragedy.  It characterizes the human condition and only those people who are going through difficulties, or who can relate to his music in some way, will, I think, fully enjoy it.  Case in point: I enjoy M6 and M9 because those questions are some of the types of questions I am dealing with.  Well, not the life and death part, but the rest are very applicable.  The others I have not explored yet really, because I honestly do not think I can ingest any more Mahlerian emotion quite yet.  LOL!

[chalkpie]

Yes! 

Just kidding - no way man! We are a special breed - yes, we do tinker on a Star Trek like fanatisicm, but who cares?

There is more artistic value in 5 minutes of a Mahler symphony than what most folks listen to in an entire year. Don't believe me? Country and Western is the most popular form of music in the states....... 'Nuff said.

Having said all that, I do find that Mahler fans can be snobbish as hell when it comes to specific recordings/orchestras/conductors - way more than any other composer I can think of. I'm not sure exactly why, but all one needs to do is start reading reviews on Amazon and you'll see what I mean.

[stillivor]

Right from the word go I took classical music to be serious stuff. Then i found that the mighty BBC devoted a whole radio station mostly to c.m. Next were my first visit to The proms in London, and I saw thousands of c.m. enthusiasts. I bought the Musical Companion edited by bacharach, which laid out the repertoire brilliantly. I became aware that c.m. was an important element of our civilisation, along with Literature, Art and rest of the Arts.

I never thought otherwise about c.m. until recent years when, owing to the increasing populism of the mass media, cl.m. seemed to be being sidelined. Yet concerts get attended, more and more ensembles form, CDs etc. pour from the 'press', we have the quite stunning revelation that is the Simon Bolivar Orchestra of venezuela. And we've had progs on the Beeb like The Choir , Singing estate, From Popstar to Opera-star, all showing that millions of people can find plenty in cl.m. given the right circs.

And have you played any of the videos of Mahler on YouTube  performed by youngsters from around the world, and some of the tingl;ing comments that viewers post? (e.g."Mahler is so great it's not funny" - marvellous.)

I discovered Mahler about 3 years into my introduction to cl.m., and soon found, in a mostly emotional and hedonistic way, that G.M. grabbed me like I'd never been grabbed before.

No doubt it was my loner tendency that kept me from the snobbery and the nerdism for a long time. His music was simply top of the league for me.

Later i became aware that some Mahler scholars were taking immense pains to get all mahleriana as accurate as poss - I mean look at Cooke's tremendous pains and purity about the performing version of the 10th and de la Grange's extraordinary biographical labours.

Finally I discover writers who place Mahler centrally as a major influence.

I ignore the snobbery, the politics quite happily, except to see what i can learn from the preferences and passions of others. Mahler can take it all, he's bigger than most.

As long as people are interested in music as something far more than merely entertainment, then mahler will be played and listened to and studied and examined and then played some more. Those who don't like it, well there are lifetimes of other stuff. You can't please all the people all the time.

And goodness does he know how to entertain, too.


  Ivor

[John Kim]

Mahler addicts are 'likely' to 'become' losers for one very obvious reason:

Listening to the music for much of your time will rob you of valuable time that you could use towards advancing your career and promotion. This is why those who are most successful don't know, don't listen to classical music; they simply don't have time for all that.

It's just one reason and there are other reasons.

John,

[John Kim]

Listening to the music for much of your time will rob you of valuable time that you could use towards advancing your career and promotion. This is why those who are most successful don't know, don't listen to classical music; they simply don't have time for all that.

Unless you can do the two things at the same time - listening & working - and keep your brain straight and sane .

John,

[waderice]

Listening to the music for much of your time will rob you of valuable time that you could use towards advancing your career and promotion. This is why those who are most successful don't know, don't listen to classical music; they simply don't have time for all that.

From this, it boils down to "balance of life" issues.  If you don't experience life on "both sides of the fence", you haven't lived life.

Wade

[John Kim]

Listening to the music for much of your time will rob you of valuable time that you could use towards advancing your career and promotion. This is why those who are most successful don't know, don't listen to classical music; they simply don't have time for all that.

From this, it boils down to "balance of life" issues.  If you don't experience life on "both sides of the fence", you haven't lived life.

Wade

Right you are. But the world seems to favor those brainless, emotionless idiots, not us.

I mean, putting "I love and enjoy Mahler" in your resume doesn't help.

John, whining .

[john haueisen]

John Kim wrote:
I mean, putting "I love and enjoy Mahler" in your resume doesn't help.

John, whining .
[/quote]
But one good thing that can come from mentioning an appreciation of Mahler is that you can sometimes meet other people who share the joy that by the grace of God (or just pure chance) they've come to hear on a higher plane.

[Amphissa]

 
I've found this discussion interesting for a couple of reasons.

First, I don't think it has much to do with Mahler specifically. If you tell most people that you are a fan of any composer, or even just generally, that you love classical music, you'll likely get blank stares. You'd likely get the same kind of reaction by saying "I'm play World of Warcraft" or "I love bass fishing" or "I write poetry."

Second, the fact is, the majority of people go to work, eat some dinner, watch mindless crap on TV, the go to bed. Computer nerds will do stuff on their computer instead of watching TV. Politicians will be involved in social functions, then go to bed.

The vast majority of people do not and have never read Shakespeare or Dostoevsky or Goethe, do not and have never listened to Taneyev or Raff or Chausson, do not and have never see an exhibit of Chihuly or Frankenthaler or Dali, do not and have never enjoyed fine wine, artisan cheeses, gourmet meals.

In fact, I'd bet that the number of people on this board who have ever done any othese things is small. So, why would you expect people at your workplace to share your interest in Mahler?

Mahler fans are no more losers than fans of Chateau Montelena wines or Akira Kurosawa movies.

All that said, I do think mention of Mahler does raise specific images for some people. Those who have little patience for anything too intellectual, who escape into South Park and CSI, but who have heard Mahler, may think of Mahler as long, very long, slow moving, tedious, turgid and above all, *depressing*. You must remember that, fo most people, music is not all that important. Mahler requires time and attention, two commodities that many people value much more highly than sitting through a symphony, and especially a long, turgid, depressing symphony.
 

[John Kim]

I've found this discussion interesting for a couple of reasons.

First, I don't think it has much to do with Mahler specifically. If you tell most people that you are a fan of any composer, or even just generally, that you love classical music, you'll likely get blank stares. You'd likely get the same kind of reaction by saying "I'm play World of Warcraft" or "I love bass fishing" or "I write poetry."

Second, the fact is, the majority of people go to work, eat some dinner, watch mindless crap on TV, the go to bed. Computer nerds will do stuff on their computer instead of watching TV. Politicians will be involved in social functions, then go to bed.

The vast majority of people do not and have never read Shakespeare or Dostoevsky or Goethe, do not and have never listened to Taneyev or Raff or Chausson, do not and have never see an exhibit of Chihuly or Frankenthaler or Dali, do not and have never enjoyed fine wine, artisan cheeses, gourmet meals.

In fact, I'd bet that the number of people on this board who have ever done any othese things is small. So, why would you expect people at your workplace to share your interest in Mahler?

Mahler fans are no more losers than fans of Chateau Montelena wines or Akira Kurosawa movies.

All that said, I do think mention of Mahler does raise specific images for some people. Those who have little patience for anything too intellectual, who escape into South Park and CSI, but who have heard Mahler, may think of Mahler as long, very long, slow moving, tedious, turgid and above all, *depressing*. You must remember that, fo most people, music is not all that important. Mahler requires time and attention, two commodities that many people value much more highly than sitting through a symphony, and especially a long, turgid, depressing symphony.
 

In other words, the world is wrong and we're right.

John,

[John Kim]

My advice to all:

If you want to be "successful" in this mundane world, don't listen to Mahler too much.

John,

[mahler09]

No, I wouldn't define Mahlerites as losers (although I can only speak for myself as literally nobody in high school has the faintest idea as to what classical music is- let alone Mahler- and am yet to meet anybody else with a similar passion for him).  However, I will admit to being a big nerd.  But even if people don't get my incessant ramblings about music, that is okay because I genuinely love the experiences that I have had.  Ever since I discovered Mahler after hearing the first symphony performed a year ago I have been hooked!  I have always been a huge fan of classical music but with Mahler it is different because there is so much honesty and beauty (et cetera!) in his work and his personality.  Listening to his music and reading about him have vastly changed my perception of his time period and my taste in classical music.

[barry guerrero]

I've been trying to stay out of this topic. But, for what it's worth, I think both John Kim AND Amphissa are correct in their observations. In my case, spending soooooo much time listening to music has certainly kept me from improving my brain in ways that could be a help to my pocketbook. Even worse, is the amount of time I spend blogging here about Mahler. Just think of the time YOU'RE wasting by reading my drivel. Sheeeeeeesh. 

[Michael]

So, you're in high school, too?  I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who loves Mahler! 

[john haueisen]

Drivel???

I would NEVER refer to Barry's insightful, enlightening, and informed comments as drivel.
Yes, we could all probably spend our time in directions that would lead to more  financial rewards, but I would never want to trade my appreciation for Mahler's music for mere financial gain.  A loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and Mahler and Mahlerians!
--John Haueisen