Are Mahlerites LOSERS??

[John Kim]

Are they??

I don't see any of the highly esteemed politicians, world class university professors, world famous actors (except for Alec Baldwin), etc, being Mahler lovers. It seems whoever love Mahler, except for the musicians, are all losers one way or another. I know I am creating a huge controversy here, but cannot help but thinking this is the case. Those who are regarded as 'successful' men in the mundane world don't know about Mahler, never care about Mahler. Why is this? Is knowing Mahler and his music defeating, and going against being successful?

John,

[Leo K]

Well,  I've never been put down by anyone for liking Mahler, and I wouldn't think of myself as a loser because I have some culture, or at least know a thing or two about what's out there.  If anything it's not Mahler as much as my CD and LP collection that turns heads...most think one recording of the M9 is enough.  So yeah, in this case I'm seen as a Mahler "nerd" rather than a loser.

I think it is a the fact that not many folks have a deep knowledge of Classical Music to know much besides the usual Mozart and Ludwig Van or Bach...the world class professionals I happen to know at the hospital just seem to like lighter entertainment, broadway shows that end happily or comedy fare.  Most of these folks have heard of Mahler but he just doesn't appeal to them.  I think most would prefer not to have a large Mahler work on a program.

--Todd

[John Kim]

Thanks Todd.

I should have used 'nerd' rather than loser. But my point was that I cannot seem to find a good intellect who enjoys Mahler within the area I can live. It's like running into a rat on a desert. I consider myself an intellect because I have a high tech job and make living based on that. I have a Ph.D. from MIT (to surprise some of you) in Engineering and I've been listening to Mahler since I was 14. But it's pretty darn difficult to find anybody around me with whom I can chat about Mahler and his music. As soon as I mention Mahler some would turn their heads away with Arggggggh (I guess at least they know who Mahler is, ah?). It's only through this faceless Internet that I am connected to my dear fellows. Try a CEO, a professor, a writer, an actor, I bet you'd never run into a true Mahlerite. I bet they don't even know classical music and yet consider themselves as elites. How embarrassing!

Blessed are thy not knowing Mahler!

John,

[david johnson]

John, the ignorant are everywhere - poor souls 
The Mahler evangelization society meets this evening in my living room - bring recordings.  Strange, fermented fluids are acceptable...

dj

[Damfino]

Try a CEO, a professor, a writer, an actor, I bet you'd never run into a true Mahlerite. I bet they don't even know classical music and yet consider themselves as elites. How embarrassing!

Blessed are thy not knowing Mahler!

John,

Generally speaking, I would not classify an actor as any sort of intellectual at all, so they are no loss, IMO. There is a talented sci-fi writer named Harlan Ellison who is a Mahlerian. In one of his books called Shatterday (His books are usually anthologies of his short stories) he included a semi-biographical story called All the Lies That Are My Life. The hero, based on Ellison is listening to a Mahler symphony in his car when he is killed in a traffic accident. I once attended a sci-fi convention because Ellison was there and he read that story aloud. Also, in the question and answer period, he mentioned liking Mahler and Charles Ives (sorry, can't agree on Ives-I've never cared for him).

I recommend Ellison's short stories. They are not strictly sci-fi (he hates the term). Ellison himself comes off as an obnoxious jerk in real life, and is always suing somebody. But he wrote some good stories. I do not always agree with his worldview, but can admire his work, nonetheless.

[Russell]

Even in my line of work (higher education), it's pretty rare to come across someone with an interest in classical music, let alone Mahler.  And even when I do, they're nowhere near as crazy as I am (or anyone else on this board  ).

Russell

[John Kim]

Todd, David, Damfino, and Russell,

I agree with you all in your observations.

What really bothers me is that 99% of the individuals who are regarded as 'successful' in the mundane sense don't seem to have a clue about classical music, let alone Mahler. On the other hand, the Mahlerites I ran across (on rare occasions) aren't necessarily in this group of people in the society. Why is this? Are there 'defeating' or 'paralyzing' effects in Mahler's music? Is it that if I keep listening to Mahler I will be less successful in my career?

By the same token, if someone appreciates and enjoys reading classical literature will he be less successful?

It all seems so, based on what I have observed and experienced. Our society is so industrialized and mechanized that it shows little tolerances to people like us. That's what pisses me off.

John,

[vvrinc]

John,

Mahler was a nerd, and so was every other great composer. Nerds are the ones who have carried on with culture through generations. The uneducated people, unfortunately, leave behind only copies of themselves through procreation, or images of themselves in old tabloids and magazines.

The calamity of our civilization, is that the latter far outnumbers the former.

Nerd1952 (and proud of it.)

[techniquest]

The calamity of our civilization, is that the latter far outnumbers the former.

And that the latter is what is seen to be preferable to aspire to.
I don't mind being a nerd - a Mahler nerd, an airplane nerd, a Shostakovich nerd, a train nerd, and computer nerd...I don't care.
It'd be nice to know one or two other nerds though 

[Damfino]

John, look around the next time you go to the symphony or the opera. Check out the people in the best seats. Look at the jewelry their wives wear. Look in the programs and see the list of well-heeled successful people who have made huge donations to the arts. There are certainly a great deal of successful people who are into classical music.

You are correct that most people are not into classical music, let alone Mahler. I read an article recently that showed how shockingly few copies of classical CDs sell. Classical Artists Such as Hilary Hahn Chart Big on Billboard With Little Sales

We are living at a time when the most popular form of "music" does not even have any discernible musical content at all.

[vvrinc]

And that the latter is what is seen to be preferable to aspire to.

Preferable to who? Other imbeciles? The TV horde? Why do you care?

Do you want to end up with dumb-ass twits for friends? Do you want to marry or date one?

[waderice]

Absolutely, I do NOT think Mahlerites are losers!

Mahlerites are individuals who have an acute sense of what and how the world functions (or dysfunctions, if you want).  They are all the more richer for what they see, experience, and know about life.  If there were more individuals with sensibilities of Mahlerites, the world would be a much better place in which to live.  That's not to say that everyone need have a bleak outlook on life.  All people, regardless of where they come from, want to live happy, fulfilled lives.  It's all a matter of peoples' origins and what they do (or don't do) to overcome the negative, or bad origins.  Even Mahler himself, didn't consider himself a loser, but he had a tremendous number of psychological hurdles to overcome, which as everyone knows, he didn't.  The ones who don't (or haven't) had negative life experiences to overcome are those who do not possess sensitivity to life's negative experiences.

Wade

[ChrisH]

The only true Mahlerite I've met, outside of the time I spent at boarding school, is the health inspector that stops by my restaurant.  He's been listening and studying Mahler for over 50 years. He's all I can talk to in my little corner of Michigan.

[Zoltan]

Now, before this topic goes to even more self-deluding posts of what great bunch of people Mahler-listeners are, or some more unfounded elitism in the wrong sense, perhaps it's time to remember that someone's music listening habit doesn't say anything about its qualities as a person.

[John Kim]

Now, before this topic goes to even more self-deluding posts of what great bunch of people Mahler-listeners are, or some more unfounded elitism in the wrong sense, perhaps it's time to remember that someone's music listening habit doesn't say anything about its qualities as a person.

I guess it depends on how you define "the qualities as a person".

Personality? Ability to succeed? His position in the society? How nice he is as a human being? etc.

John,