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Karajan M5 really is great.

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mosschops:
Im afraid i think the complete opposite, his M6 is good, his M9 very good but the fifth, with all those reported 50 hours rehearsal time - terrible. Yes they play it heart on sleeve with wild abandon you just dont get these days but the playing is so ragged in places i just cant listen to it. I am still searching for the definitive version of this symphony - it doesnt exist yet for me.
Chailly is phenomenal and would be the one, had it had more of the aforementioned 'wild abandon' of Karajan.
Barshai too is almost it but drags so much in the 3rd and 5th movements tat you find yourself urgin it on all the time.
Karajan just doesn't cut it. Listen to those 2 moments in the scherzo where the orchestra simply fall apart to an embarassing degree.
The search goes on.

Vatz Relham:

--- Quote from: mosschops on January 02, 2007, 08:27:50 PM ---Im afraid i think the complete opposite, his M6 is good, his M9 very good but the fifth, with all those reported 50 hours rehearsal time - terrible. Yes they play it heart on sleeve with wild abandon you just dont get these days but the playing is so ragged in places i just cant listen to it. I am still searching for the definitive version of this symphony - it doesnt exist yet for me.
Chailly is phenomenal and would be the one, had it had more of the aforementioned 'wild abandon' of Karajan.
Barshai too is almost it but drags so much in the 3rd and 5th movements tat you find yourself urgin it on all the time.
Karajan just doesn't cut it. Listen to those 2 moments in the scherzo where the orchestra simply fall apart to an embarassing degree.
The search goes on.

--- End quote ---

I agree with mosschops, the Karajan M5 didn't do much for me either infact I sold it.
Also agree that his 6th is good (not great) dispite the slow Andante, comes with two very good set of songs KTL & RKL with Christa Ludwig.
I like his 4th quite a bit even though it is too smoothly played, but in this symphony I think it works OK, soprano is very good.
I very much like his M9 remake on DG Gold.

Vatz
 

sperlsco:

--- Quote from: Vatz Relham on January 02, 2007, 08:53:59 PM ---... infact I sold it.

Vatz

--- End quote ---

What does this mean?  Did you actually get rid of a Mahler recording?  Even one that you didn't like?  Is this normal behavior?   ;)

Am I not supposed to keep every Mahler recording that I've ever purchased?  Should I be getting rid of the dreaded Maazel ones?   ;D

Vatz Relham:


What does this mean?  Did you actually get rid of a Mahler recording?  Even one that you didn't like?  Is this normal behavior?   ;)

Am I not supposed to keep every Mahler recording that I've ever purchased?  Should I be getting rid of the dreaded Maazel ones?   ;D
[/quote]

Yes I have, :o actually quite a few, all of Walter's mono recordings, Abbado's CSO M2, VPO M4, BPO M8, Zander's M5 & M6, MTT's M6 and his LSO M7, Horenstein's M7, Barbirolli's M4, M7, Litton M2, a few Naxos Mahler's and some others that I can't remember right now.

After a few listens and comparisons to other recordings that I like, if they don't stand up I dump them.
You should try it! I find another way to know if I should keep a recording is by thinking if I lost this recording (insert a CD here) would I buy it again? As for Maazel I read so many bad things about his Mahler that I never bought any, I did here his M4 from my local library, I liked it especially Kathleen Battle's singing, but not enough to buy it.

To mosschops: Have you tried Daniele Gatti's M5 on Conifer Classics with the RPO? I really like it especially for the very fast and furious opening to the 2nd mvmt.

Vatz

barry guerrero:
Yeah, but Gatti's finale doesn't hold a candle to Karajan's (too little bass drum, for one thing), and the RPO strings are thin and lack-luster in the famous Adagietto. I'd also be curious as to precisely where the BPO is supposedly falling apart on the Karajan M5 (timings or bar numbers, please). I'm usually extremely sensitive to poor playing, as you know.

Karajan was extremely proud of his recording of the 5th Mahler, flaunting it in front of Carl Orff. I think he was right. For once, he was able to get beyond himself, and just let go. But I also feel that it's sufficiently anal in regards to detail.

Karajan's M6, on the other hand, may be superior in terms of precision and details, but it's conceptually a mis-fire. It's a case of missing the forest for the trees. The opening march is simply too fast and furious - hardly anyone does it that way anymore. But more to the point, the outer movements are fast and furious, while the two inner movements are simply too slow. I could possibly excuse all that, if it weren't for the fact that Karajan really almost drags the numereous and lengthy trio sections in the scherzo movement. And while the Philharmonie may be a better location for going after precision, this is simply the start of a long line of recordings that really almost sound like dog-doo. On top of that, the hammer strokes are sadly underwhelming. What's the point of getting tons of little details right, if you're going to miss such an obvious and major one? Like the famous Solti Mahler 8th, this is a recording that I've tried to make myself like over and over. What I've discovered is that IF I want an M6 with a fast and furious beginning (and I don't), I'll reach for Bernstein everytime - either one of them. I will say this much on Karajan's behalf:  just as with the MTT/SFSO M6 recording, the Karajan one does work better if you switch the two inner movements.

Barry

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