Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra SACDs--OT

[sbugala]

I recently got a fairly nice SACD player, and I'd like to get some of the old Vox recordings the Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra made that have been remastered on SACD. However, some seem out of print, and pretty expensive in the used market.  Does anyone know of a good source where I might find them used?

The ones I'd like the most are:

Holst's The Planets conducted by Walter Susskind
Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition conducted by Slatkin
Gershwin American in Paris, Rhapsody in Blue, etc. conducted by Slatkin


Thanks, if you can help!

[barry guerrero]

It's difficult to find any sacd's used. Did you try Amazon?

[sbugala]

That's where they seem to be the highest. But on the bright side, I played some normal CDs on the new player, and Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" blew me away. So did the Beatles' Rubber Soul.

Zinman's Mahler sounds a lot better to my ears, even though I only have a two channel set up. 

So maybe the old 90's issues of these Vox recordings will be fine. I suppose there's a decision of cost vs. purported increase in quality. Do I want to pay three times as much or more for what could be a marginal increase in quality? Maybe not...

[chris]

I have had some good luck at Berkshire Record Outlet - http://berkshirerecordoutlet.com

None of the ones you're looking for are available right now, but it may be worth checking periodically. 

[Damfino]

Zinman's Mahler sounds a lot better to my ears, even though I only have a two channel set up. 

So maybe the old 90's issues of these Vox recordings will be fine. I suppose there's a decision of cost vs. purported increase in quality. Do I want to pay three times as much or more for what could be a marginal increase in quality? Maybe not...

I have only heard Zinman's M2 on SACD. It did not make full use of multichannels. As I recall, there was no use of the center channel whatsoever, and only the usual ambient echo in the rear surrounds; so you are not missing much by only listening in 2-channel as it almost is a 2-channel recording.

I do not usually buy 2-channel SACDs. I think the only one I have is Litton's M2 which sounds really good; but I do not remember if it was an improvement over the redbook CD version which I no longer have. While the SACDs should be an improvement, I don't know that they are worth the inflated prices some Amazon sellers are asking for them. I'd just keep looking until they hit the price you are willing to pay.

Bedsides those Vox recordings you mention, the Mercury Living Presence SACDs are getting expensive and rare as well. I remember getting Dorati's Firebird new for the price one would usually pay for any CD. Now it is out of print and someone is attempting to sell one on Amazon for $299!

[barry guerrero]

"I remember getting Dorati's Firebird new for the price one would usually pay for any CD. Now it is out of print and someone is attempting to sell one on Amazon for $299!"

Gee, I'm glad I've hung on to my copy of Dorati's "Firebird". I like his super fast tempo for the Infernal Dance.

[ctcdaggett]

Some Mercury trivia;  The CD project was supervised by the late Wilma Cozart (Bob Fine's wife).  The SACDs were an all German project.  So be prepared for some "tonal" differences between the CD vs SACD (as the Firebird being a prime example).

bob berkman ( a Mercophile with the complete Merc catalog..mono/stereo/golden import/speakers corner/classic-records/2-tk & 4-tk open reel/B-C open reel/CD/SACD, and a couple of 8-track cassettes.  Whew!

[James Meckley]

The SACDs were an all German project.  So be prepared for some "tonal" differences between the CD vs SACD (as the Firebird being a prime example).

Interesting. So how would you characterize the tonal differences between the CDs and the SACDs, if any generalizations can be made? I have many of the Mercury CDs but none of the SACDs. My impression of the CDs is that they are rather bright and forward sounding (one might even say "aggressive")—more so than I remember the LPs being. I would guess that the independently-engineered SACDs might have been made more "polite" sounding, perhaps in the direction of the Golden Import LPs?

BTW, did the Fennell/EWE recording of the Hindemith B-flat Symphony, et alia (SR 90143) ever get transferred to CD or SACD? If so, I never saw it—perhaps the master tape (or film!) was lost or damaged.

James

[sbugala]

The SACDs were an all German project.  So be prepared for some "tonal" differences between the CD vs SACD (as the Firebird being a prime example).

Interesting. So how would you characterize the tonal differences between the CDs and the SACDs, if any generalizations can be made? I have many of the Mercury CDs but none of the SACDs. My impression of the CDs is that they are rather bright and forward sounding (one might even say "aggressive")—more so than I remember the LPs being. I would guess that the independently-engineered SACDs might have been made more "polite" sounding, perhaps in the direction of the Golden Import LPs?

BTW, did the Fennell/EWE recording of the Hindemith B-flat Symphony, et alia (SR 90143) ever get transferred to CD or SACD? If so, I never saw it—perhaps the master tape (or film!) was lost or damaged.

James

That would be a great one to hear! I have that one on LP, too. I used to play in a community band, and the Hindemith is a great work!

[ctcdaggett]

Merc CD vs SACD?  As a group they are somewhat less aggressive than the CDs.  They have the gimmick of incorporating the 3rd (center) channel in their multi-channel mix (but since my speakers are KLH-9's, I'm not going to be 3-channeling soon).  I do have a pair of Oppo 981 SACD players for the purpose of doing AB's, so I'll do some Merc CD/SACD trials and report.  The SACDs are a bit louder than the CD so it is not an easy comparison.

Mercurys are a bit forward (in your face, bright, etchy et al)?  You bet they are.  Add to that the pressing mania (FR, RFR, "M", AMS, SRI, and the dreaded "vendor"), and using different people for cutting the mono & stereo pressings, it becomes a collectors nightmare.

The 90143 did make it to Golden Import status as SRI 75057, but I can't find any CD of it.  I always felt this disc was a sleeper (mine being a RFR-1, meaning "fine Records/Richmond, Indiana pressing plant, VENDOR, meaning whatever).  I'd like to have a FR (RCA) pressing, but I don't know if one even exists.  Since Universal has such a pissy attitude pertaining to reissues, I think that the Mercury CD issue/reissue is dead for now, with the exception of whatever Archiv wants do do.

The vinyl side could be brighter if Speakers Corner gets back in their Mercury mode, but Kai Seaman says that the discs aren't selling as well as expected.  He is responsive, and a few plugs for a 90143 reissue can't hurt.

I'll get back with SACD/CD in a few days.

bob berkman, mojave desert

[mahler09]

While on the topic of sound equipment, any suggestions on (relatively) inexpensive record players?  I recently got several vinyls of Mahler songs and am dying to listen 

[James Meckley]

While on the topic of sound equipment, any suggestions on (relatively) inexpensive record players?

This will probably be a controversial topic, but here's my opinion. If you just want to listen to the music on your new LPs in the most basic sense, any $150.00 USB turntable will do. Just plug it into your computer and go.

If, on the other hand, you want to try to realize some of the "magic" that—rightly or wrongly—has come to be associated with LPs and analog front ends, you'll need to spend a bit more. I just set up a system for a friend, comprising the following components:

Technics SL-1200 Turntable ($700.00)
Audio Technica AT-440-MLA Cartridge ($175.00)

Since he already had a pre-amp with a decent phono stage (another expense to be considered), his outlay was less than a thousand dollars and he's absolutely delighted. I would consider this a minimum expenditure for decent analog sound, and you could easily spend several thousand dollars more depending on your goals and standards. The Technics turntable is sort of a classic, and many after-market "tweaks" are available to make additional improvements in its performance.

Other brands to consider are SOTA, Linn, and Rega, though these are much more tempermental beasts. You'll find much information at needledoctor.com.

If you want to consider used gear, look for belt-drive or direct-drive turntables and avoid the rim-drive designs. I would automatically replace any used phono cartridge, so figure on at least another $100.00 for that.

James

[Leo K]

I have got great enjoyment with beautiful sound out of my cheap Pioneer turntable, for only $100 or so on Amazon. I have it connected to an Onkyo reciever, and listen with Grado headphones. To me, it sounds like a million bucks.

I don't miss what I've never heard (an expensive sound system) but if I did hear one, I would probably despair, so I don't go there...but I'm pretty happy with my little setup. Even my vintage Beatles LPs from the UK, like a numbered White Album mono pressing, sounds really fine on my turntable.

--Todd

[mahler09]

Yeah I'm not really looking to spend thousands of dollars on this... more like a hundred!