OT: Tristan und Isolde

[bluesbreaker]

I am not sure if similar topic has discussed before, but after some years listening to Mahler and Bruckner, I decided give Wagner a listen , and I would like to start with T&I, as I am listening the prelude on YouTube as I write.
Yesterday I saw a recording of it by Lenny Bernstein on Phillips. I would like to have it since it is rare and I love Lenny, but what are the standard recordings for this musical drama, as Wagner himself would call it?
Thanks.

[bluesbreaker]

I thought the prelude has similar vibe with M10 adagio.
Just my impression.

[waderice]

The universally-recognized best complete modern recording of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde is the 1966 live recording at Bayreuth conducted by Karl Böhm with Birgit Nilsson as Isolde and Wolfgang Windgassen as Tristan.  There also is an excellent one from the so-called "Golden Age" (1936) with the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, having Fritz Reiner as conductor, Kirsten Flagstad as Isolde, and Lauritz Melchior as Tristan.  Both recordings are readily available.  Some here might quibble with me on these choices, but everyone has their preferences.

Wade

P.S. - Don't limit yourself to T & I.  As soon as you've gotten your fill of this particular opera, come back for some more advice.  However, at this point, I don't exactly recommend that you go from T & I to Der Ring des Nibelungen, but maybe you might want to further "wet your feet" by listening to orchestral excerpts from the other operas.  George Szell's Sony recordings of such repertoire have been considered a standard for years, though other conductors such as Ormandy, Bernstein, Klemperer, and Walter made their recorded contributions to this particular repertoire.  This is probably the best way to familiarize yourself with Wagner's music that will be very useful to you as a learning tool and recognition media for the coming years.

[Prospero]

I am not that fond of the Bohm/Nilsson/Windgassen Tristan. A lot of steel, not so much heart and mystery.

For depth, the Furtwangler/Flagstad/Suthaus on EMI and elsewhere seems far truer to me. And for excitement the Kleiber/Price/Kollo on DGG--though the live 1976 Bayreuth with Kleiber/Ligendza/Wenkov seems to me superior.

The Kubelik Meistersinger is very fine.

The Parsifal of Kanppertsbusch/Hotter/Thomas/Dalis is marvelous.

For the Ring-- Furtwangler La Scala for depth, Solti for drama, Keilberth Bayreuth Testament for fine singing and good sound, Karajan for fine orchestral playing.

Just a start.

Tom in Vermont

[John Kim]

Tom,

What's your thought on Thielemann's T&I?

I quite like it for the lots of details and exquisite orchestral playing.

John

[vvrinc]

X2, what the Duke of Milan said above.

[bluesbreaker]

The universally-recognized best complete modern recording of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde is the 1966 live recording at Bayreuth conducted by Karl Böhm with Birgit Nilsson as Isolde and Wolfgang Windgassen as Tristan.  There also is an excellent one from the so-called "Golden Age" (1936) with the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, having Fritz Reiner as conductor, Kirsten Flagstad as Isolde, and Lauritz Melchior as Tristan.  Both recordings are readily available.  Some here might quibble with me on these choices, but everyone has their preferences.

Wade

P.S. - Don't limit yourself to T & I.  As soon as you've gotten your fill of this particular opera, come back for some more advice.  However, at this point, I don't exactly recommend that you go from T & I to Der Ring des Nibelungen, but maybe you might want to further "wet your feet" by listening to orchestral excerpts from the other operas.  George Szell's Sony recordings of such repertoire have been considered a standard for years, though other conductors such as Ormandy, Bernstein, Klemperer, and Walter made their recorded contributions to this particular repertoire.  This is probably the best way to familiarize yourself with Wagner's music that will be very useful to you as a learning tool and recognition media for the coming years.

Awesome. I will listen to the prelude recordings first I guess. Thanks!

[Prospero]

Tom,

What's your thought on Thielemann's T&I?

I quite like it for the lots of details and exquisite orchestral playing.

John

I've only heard the Thielemann's T&I on the radio, so I need to listen to it carefully. I heard his Ring live at Bayreuth in 2007 and a marvelous Rosenkavalier in London in 2001(?). I missed his FROSCH at the Met in 2002 because of travel break down. His recent Meistersinger on DVD is excellent (on the radio broadcast Sacks runs out of steam). I will need to check out his T&I to fill in my background.
Thanks for the alert, John.

Tom in Vermont

[barry guerrero]

I like the Bohm. For a more modern recording, I think that the Nina Stemme/Domingo/Papa/Pappano (cond.) one on EMI is really good. It seems to have received better reviews than the Thielemann.

[bluesbreaker]

 And what about the Lenny's account? Anyone heard it?

[barry guerrero]

 "And what about the Lenny's account?"

Absurdly slow in a work that's already excessively long in delivering its rather simple message albeit beautifully so at that.

[brunumb]

"Absurdly slow in a work that's already excessively long in delivering its rather simple message albeit beautifully so at that."

So you are telling us that Lenny's account is overdrawn   

[Prospero]

"And what about the Lenny's account?"

Absurdly slow in a work that's already excessively long in delivering its rather simple message albeit beautifully so at that.

I'm going to have to disagree that T&I has or represents anything like a "rather simple message." The whole history of eros and the subconscious in the modern era along with the challenges of unattainable perfection and the allure of a transcendent mortality go far beyond anything simple in my view. In addition, the pressures both on consciousness and anything remotely like traditional harmony in T&I  open the endless complexities of modern experience in psychological, philosophical, and musical dimensions.

Tom in Vermont

[barry guerrero]

"The whole history of eros and the subconscious in the modern era along with the challenges of unattainable perfection and the allure of a transcendent mortality go far beyond anything simple in my view. In addition, the pressures both on consciousness and anything remotely like traditional harmony in T&I  open the endless complexities of modern experience in psychological, philosophical, and musical dimensions"

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean that it benefits from having the tempi be ultra-slow either.

[Prospero]

"The whole history of eros and the subconscious in the modern era along with the challenges of unattainable perfection and the allure of a transcendent mortality go far beyond anything simple in my view. In addition, the pressures both on consciousness and anything remotely like traditional harmony in T&I  open the endless complexities of modern experience in psychological, philosophical, and musical dimensions"

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean that it benefits from having the tempi be ultra-slow either.

My comment is not about the Bernstein performance but rather the complex nature of of Wagner's "Tristan and Isolde." I much prefer Carlos Kleiber and Furtwangler to Bernstein in T&I. We might also mention Wagner's study and inclusion of Schopenhauer's philosophy in the text and music of T&I as one notable dimension of the enigmatic nature of the work. Barry Millington's "The Tristan Chord" is a useful commentary on the intellectual content of much of Wagner's work.