Author Topic: Sinopoli  (Read 11761 times)

Offline nickmolland

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Sinopoli
« on: April 14, 2007, 12:01:11 PM »
What do other people think of the Sinopoli DG recordings? I can't point to anything wrong with them, but I'm thinking of selling my box: like the Kubelik cycle (for me), they seem curiously inert and uninvolving. Contrast that with the lively and exciting Gielen cycle which I'm working my way through at the moment, and I can't really decide why I'd want to play them again!

Am I speaking from ignorance and poor taste, or do others agree?

Thanks,

Nick


Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2007, 03:08:34 PM »
The playing isn't all that great, and neither is the recorded sound. Whatever the reason, today's Philharmonia is very weak in the double bass section. As a result, the recordings tend to be rather top heavy. The only really keeper is possibly the eighth symphony. The Dresden "DLvdE" is very good also. All of the shorter song cycles are actually better conducted and better performed than the longer symphonies. As to whether you should sell it or not, that's always a very personal decision. I certainly wouldn't buy the whole set, so maybe that's an answer in itself.

Barry Guerrero

Offline nickmolland

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2007, 12:47:23 PM »
In pursuing my enquiries on the net, it seems that the latest Sinopoli Hanssler release of M9 with Stattskapelle Dresden is available here in high-quality flac format:

http://www.mininova.org/tor/648727.

I haven't heard it yet, but for those equipped for flac downloads this might be of interest!

Nick


Offline je-b

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2007, 09:16:08 PM »
I listened to the Sinopoli / Dresden M9 here at my local record store and it's an extremely slow and heavy performance, with the first movement clocking in at almost 34 minutes alone. The playing of the Dresden Staatskapelle ist wonderful, but Sinopoli here conducts Mahler's Ninth as if it were Bruckner's: everything is grand, majestic, beautiful, but I didn't feel any of the devastation, anguish and manic, radiant energy heard on other recordings.

Yet, it goes without saying that the included "Death and Transfiguration", recorded very late in his life (2001), is totally superb. Everything the Mahler recording is lacking is suddenly there and there's an elegance and noblesse to the playing (strings particularly) that must be heard to be believed. But I certainly wouldn't buy this rather expensive set (30 Euros) for the Strauss alone, and I really didn't like the M9 much at all. 
"Ich leb' allein in meinem Himmel,
 In meinem Lieben, in meinem Lied!"

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2007, 05:04:59 AM »
"it goes without saying that the included "Death and Transfiguration", recorded very late in his life (2001), is totally superb. Everything the Mahler recording is lacking is suddenly there and there's an elegance and noblesse to the playing (strings particularly) that must be heard to be believed."

Probably because he was smart enough to just stand there and let them play it. This team's "Alpine Symphony" is very much that way. It's also excellent, with Sinopoli not intervening in the slightest.

I don't think that I want to bother with this M9 either. In fact, I've decided that I don't even like the Mahler 9th - I like the Bruckner 9th much more (sans finale). I only like the Mahler 9th done as an expressionistic horror show ala Klemperer or Giulini. Or, I like for the first three movements to be performed as a prelude to the fourth movement, ala Abbado/BPO (or Masur/NYPO to a lessor degree). One other way that I like it done, is just incredibly loud ala Karajan. Then again, I like the Chailly/RCOA recording of it as well. Come to think of it, maybe I really do like the Mahler 9th, but just not as much as Bruckner 9.

Bruckner should have left finales off of all his symphonies, except the third and fifth (maybe the 8th too - when it's done fantastically well). The Bruckner 4th should drop the slow movement, since the finale has adagio aspects to it. Bruckner 6 needs to keep its finale, but needs a huge cut in the middle of it. Same for Bruckner 7. In fact, maybe it should all get edited into one truly great Bruckner symphony.

The same is true for all those goofy Richard Strauss tone poems. You should start with the fanfare from "Zarathustra"; segue into the development section from "Tod und Verklaerung"; throw in the horn calls from "Don Juan"; add the windmill passage from "Don Quixote"; go to the "summit" passage from the "Alpine Symphony"; replace the storm sequence with the "battle" scene from "Ein Heldenleben", and finish with the finale from "Sinfonia Domestica". That would make for a great Straussian tone poem.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 05:17:48 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline Leo K

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2007, 07:45:30 PM »
I am really looking forward to this M9.  The timings are epic...

(posted on the M-list)

1 32:57
2. 17:00
3. 14:15
4. 29:19

 8) 8) 8)

Offline akiralx

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007, 08:40:37 AM »
I am really looking forward to this M9.  The timings are epic...

(posted on the M-list)

1 32:57
2. 17:00
3. 14:15
4. 29:19

 8) 8) 8)


I've just ordered this - M9 is not my favourite by any means but something distinctive like this would hold my attention - and I love Tod und V so it's a no brainer for me...

Offline John Kim

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2007, 05:42:32 PM »
The timings look more like what he did with LAPO in late 70's. That was a phenomenal performance that demonstrated what the orchestra was capable of doing.

John,

Offline Leo K

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2007, 07:45:09 PM »
In pursuing my enquiries on the net, it seems that the latest Sinopoli Hanssler release of M9 with Stattskapelle Dresden is available here in high-quality flac format:

http://www.mininova.org/tor/648727.

I haven't heard it yet, but for those equipped for flac downloads this might be of interest!

Nick



Thanks for the link Nick. 

Offline je-b

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2007, 01:30:38 PM »
Okay, I bought the Dresden M9 as I thought it might be worth it for the "Tod und Verklärung" alone (and it certainly is at 7.99 pounds from hmv.co.uk  :)).   
As it arrived, I gave another turn to the M9 as people on the M-List really seemed to like it. I must say it's one of the weirdest, most annoying, and mannered performances of this work I've ever heard. It's really gravely slow (first movement particularly), it drags like crazy, with heavy use of rubato, and climaxes that seem to come out of nowhere. Actually, one can at times sense Sinopoli is apparently having trouble holding the whole thing together. Unfortunately, playing isn't very idiomatic either and balances are sometimes really, really odd. Yes, there are beautiful moments here (fourth movement particularly), but on the whole, I really happen to find it extremely boring. 

I really don't like to say this, for I consider myself rather "pro-Sinopoli" (I just love his Bruckner #5, Wagner recordings, "Die Frau ohne Schatten", "Ariadne auf Naxos", and virtually everything by Strauss he's ever done), and the Staatskapelle Dresden ranks with my favorite orchestras. But this one...  :-\   
"Ich leb' allein in meinem Himmel,
 In meinem Lieben, in meinem Lied!"

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2007, 02:05:08 PM »
Somebody at Gramophone - Richard Osborne, maybe? - described Sinopoli's incredibly slow M6 as being, quote, "dead behind the eyes". Sounds like this Dresden M9 is very much in that vane (vein?).

Barry

Offline Leo K

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2007, 02:15:40 PM »
Somebody at Gramophone - Richard Osborne, maybe? - described Sinopoli's incredibly slow M6 as being, quote, "dead behind the eyes". Sounds like this Dresden M9 is very much in that vane (vein?).

Barry

Do you mean Sinopoli's commercially released M6? 

"Dead behind the eyes" sounds quite poetic from a certain point of view!!  Perhaps not good for Mahler though. 

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Sinopoli
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2007, 04:01:11 AM »
Yes, it was a review of his DG M6, back when it first came out. I think that those words came from Edward Seckerson, now that I think about it.

Barry

 

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