M8 current versions to be reviewed on BBC

[stillivor]

Each week, in the Beeb classical review prog CD Review, they have a section called Building a Library, lasting around 50 minutes. A single work, usually, is chosen and the available versions are compared by one reviewer seeking a library choice. Sometimes they add the bargain and historical choices too.

Next saturday, 26th, M8 is the work under consideration.

I hope to report back after.

Onwards and upwards :-)



     Ivor

[stillivor]

Most enjoyable, as ever.

There were quite a few performances in the frame to the last. Julian Johnson greatly admired Kubelik, Solti, Boulez, Zinman, M.T.T., and both Chaillys. So they can be counted the joint runners-up.

Johnson's winning choice, which apart from great soloists who were well-balance, and excellent sound; not to mention a highly focused part 1 and well-structured part two, had a great inward energy, and above all, made him hear the work anew, was the '94 Abbado.



    Ivor

[barry guerrero]

Really? I tried listening to the Abbado over and over - numerous times - and I found it to be dull as dirt. There's not much organ, and I swear the English Horn (Cor Anglais) is one beat off with a brief solo during one of the more Mendelssohn like, childrens' chorus passages in Part II (jene Rosen).

[stillivor]

This is the link to  the podcast of an edited version of the broadcast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/bal

There is clearly not likely to be unity about anything in music. Barry, I can recount what he said about other available recordings, say, your fave, if you like.

[barry guerrero]

Hey, I'm just telling you how I reacted to it - after giving it MANY chances - and I don't know a single other person who think it's all that hot either. Don't blame me.

[stillivor]

Barry, as a therapist [rtd.], I am out of the ordinary as I don't do blame. As I know see it, blaming mostly means .......  well, let me just say, is a highly contentious and complicated subject.

I was/am simply offering info about what Johnson said about other performances. Actually for anyone interested. Quite a few came very close. Personally I don't approve the idea of  a 'best' performances even if it does sharpen one's listening.

And, of course, Johnson's is just one opinion, even if he does show a lot of his working



     Ivor

[hrandall]

Ivor,

What were some of the also-rans for M8 in this program? I can't get the program to play here in the US.

Thanks,
Herb

[stillivor]

hr

The ones still there near the end were Kubelik, Boulez, Zinman, M.T.T. , both Chailly's and Solti.

M.T.T. and the later Chailly looked to be the approx. runner's-up, tho' Thomas's angels sound 'rather pure'. He didn't otherwise have a criticism of Chailly.

Tennstedt and Gergiev have the acoustics against them. Zinman lacks weight; Solti too earthbound. Bernstein's sacrifices the whole for drama. Maazel is too slow and at times joyless, Wit is good but let down by his singers. De Billy was too fast.

At the beginning of his review,he  regretted that the Horenstein is no longer available but didn't enlarge.




    Ivor
He was considering recordings currently available in the UK only.

Think he's a prof at Oxford.

[techniquest]

I found this review to be more about the singing/soloists than the whole. I'm with BG on this one and would not personally put the Abbado at the top of the list.

[stillivor]

Having read thru my notes, he says a lot about tempi [see above], much about sound [Tennstedt's first is too boomy, his second boxy, Gergiev's too cavernous], the balance [rarely got right, Abbado does], feelings [MTT is full of joy at the opening, Maazel joyless], general impression [ at the beginning of side 2, Boulez gets the orchestra to convey the right sense of emptiness and detail; at a particular point of entry of the Chorus Mysticus, Bernstein achieves 'an ethereal quality']

And so on.

And it is but one experienced listener's view. Heaven forfend that we all agree about everything.

M8 is one of the work's where I haven't specially made choices, oh, except Horenstein [but that's my problem, I know]. Still getting to grips with it.



    Ivor

[hrandall]

As a result of this discussion, I went back and listened to the Kubelik (Audite) M8 and liked it much more than I remembered.

Of ones not mentioned (because not readily available in Britain, I suppose), my favorites are Inbal (Tokyo), Ozawa (Boston), Bertini (Cologne) and Schwartz (Seattle) (a pretty recent purchase for me, and I need to listen more to be certain).

I don't want to be heretical here, but I feel like the Horenstein one is somewhat overrated, and the Solti one very much so. I've also seen the Gielen one praised and frankly just don't see it. Maybe I'm just weird.

My two cents, for what it's worth...

Cheers,
Herb

[techniquest]

I don't want to be heretical here, but I feel like the Horenstein one is somewhat overrated, and the Solti one very much so. I've also seen the Gielen one praised and frankly just don't see it. Maybe I'm just weird.

I don't think that what you are saying is necessarily heresy; I'd agree about the Horenstein being 'somewhat overated' in both the 8th and - to a lesser degree maybe - the 3rd; I also agree wholeheartedly regarding the Solti and Gielen recordings, but then Solti and Mahler never make for a good combination to my ears. There are some pretty dire M8's out there - readily available or otherwise (Tabakov in his cycle on Capriccio springs to mind); and there are some excellent ones too and I do include the Wit recording on Naxos among them, as well as Nagano on Harmonia mundi and Wyn Morris on IMP Classics (if you can find it). As 'stillivor' suggests above, heaven forfend that we all agree on everything.

[stillivor]

Personally, I'd be interested in the thoughts of you both about the Horenstein.

Btw,in the review, the Wit fell early because Johnson thought he was let down by not good enough singers.



    Ivor

[barry guerrero]

Considering that the Horenstein was captured 'live' in 1959, it's pretty darn good. I don't think it's made from a bunch of edits either.

[barry guerrero]

"Tennstedt and Gergiev have the acoustics against them. Zinman lacks weight; Solti too earthbound. Bernstein's sacrifices the whole for drama. Maazel is too slow and at times joyless, Wit is good but let down by his singers. De Billy was too fast"

These are absurd generalities that don't really hold up to genuine, musical analysis and scrutiny. Just speaking for myself, I couldn't begin to take this person's opinions seriously.