Abbado/Lucerne/M2 (dvd)

[Wunderhorn]

I love this performance. Ravishing Larsson reminded me of Rossl-Majdan. Abbado conducted the work naturally and the orchestra was amazing. I've never seen the Bernstein boxset, but I've heard it had filming and editing mistakes; That definitely isn't the case with this Abbado preformace. It is shot in Contemporary wide screen, therefore fits best on modern HD and LCD televisions. (The female first cello kept smirking at Abbado, couldn't figure whether it was condescending or flirtatious?)[/b]

[Vatz Relham]

Wunderhorn,

Agreed about Anna Larsson, she is wonderful, I would love to hear her sing DLVDE.

I received the Boulez M2 DVD, but haven't watched it yet, Barry has praised it over Abbado, so looking forward to it.
Regardless I will still keep the Abbado.
The Bernstein M2 DVD seems fine but it was taken from multiple performances, so you can see changes in the audience from shot to shot which gives it a fragmented look, plus the performance is a little dull and drawn out for my taste. I'd take Abbado's M2 DVD over Bernstein's M2 DVD any day.

Vatz

 

[barry guerrero]

Abbado may have conducted the work "naturally", but I still find him hard to watch. I also don't care for watching all those string and w.w. players whirling their torsos about like some kind of weird, collective fan. The Staatskapelle Berlin does that stuff far less than these folks do. I just find all that shifting about really hard to watch, and it distracts from the music - for me, anyway. Also, the Staatskapelle percussionists bash and smash their way through the work more than Abbado's people do, and the Staatskapelle cymbal player is just a gas to watch. Therefore, overall, I prefer the Boulez. The tuba player in the Staatskapelle is much stronger sounding than Abbado's man. It's also far easier to follow Boulez's beat. Regardless, the Abbado M2 is very good performance; there's no denying that. It even has a slightly stronger organ, but not by much. Boulez's DG recording of M2 has practically zero organ; so, it was nice to get that corrected in the DVD.

Barry

[sperlsco]

I followed up my session with the Zinman M2 by listening/watching to the Abbado/LFO DVD.  Generally, I have no problems with the visual aspects of the DVD.  And most of the performance is conducted exactly as I prefer from an overall timing and tempo perspective.  My main problem has always been with the underwhelming ending.  Abbado seems to rush the closing passage, and the bells, tams-tams, and organ are just not big enough for me.  I have a lowish-rez version of the Boulez/SK Berlin M2 video (which limits my enjoyment of it) and cannot wait to receive the DVD next week to do a comparison. 

[Ben]

I agree; I like this DVD quite a bit except for the ending.  It is much too rushed.  Though, if you watch the DVD in the DTS 5.1 audio, the organ really comes to life.  Much more present than in regular stereo, and certainly more than the CD release.

Ben

[Damfino]

In the DTS 5.1 audio, the organ really comes to life.

The organ definitely has presence in the DTS 5.1 track.  I later bought the CD and was disappointed in the sound in comparison to the DVD.  As I've said before, it seems to be next to impossible to hear all the forces at the end without the use of some sort of multichannel recording and playback.

My main problem has always been with the underwhelming ending.  Abbado seems to rush the closing passage...

The ending is quite odd.  I would swear it is as if someone whispered in Abaddo's ear that he was late for an appointment, and that he'd better quickly wrap up the ending.  Maybe Abaddo felt that after "Auferstehn" choral/orchestral/organ moment that the rest of the symphony was anticlimactic?

[Wunderhorn]

I was drinking when I watched the symphony. I remember the beautiful Urlicht, and then couldn't perceive much after that. I'm going to watch it again, see if everyone is just whining or if it is actually played far too quickly.

[waderice]

Thought I'd resurrect (pun intended) this thread.

I have looked numerous times at the multi-segmented posts of this performance at YouTube, but have put off buying the DVD until now.  Compared to all of the rest of the other M2 performances posted there, I find this the best.  Yes, there are nits to pick, but what M2 doesn't have them?  I will agree with others that the conclusion is rushed, but then again, many other conductors often draw the ending out.  Though the sound is overall compressed, I can live with that.  Though I was in the chorus for M2 for three performances in an earlier part of my life, and have seen/heard several live performances since (yes, one of them was with Kaplan conducting ), I consider this one of the better ones (live or recorded) I have heard.  I hear/recall some bits and pieces of Bernstein, Klemperer, and Walter in this performance.  I'm surprised I haven't seen/heard Anna Larsson elsewhere in the contralto solos.  Anyone seen/heard where she has been as of late?

One thing no one else has mentioned about this performance is that the chorus has their music committed to memory.  When I was with a choral group in the mid-seventies, we did twelve (count 'em, 12!) performances of the Beethoven 9th in one season!  By the 12th performance, the chorus director felt we would be able to do the 12th performance without music (with Antal Dorati and the Royal Philharmonic at Royal Festival Hall in London), but out of fear of the newer members not having performed the work as many times as I and others had done, he got cold feet.  Darn!

I occasionally find someone who knows nothing about Mahler.  Since a lot of people seem to thrive with seeing as well as hearing their music, I'll use this performance to convince them of Mahler's greatness as a composer.

[Damfino]

Thought I'd resurrect (pun intended) this thread.

I have looked numerous times at the multi-segmented posts of this performance at YouTube, but have put off buying the DVD until now.  Compared to all of the rest of the other M2 performances posted there, I find this the best.  Yes, there are nits to pick, but what M2 doesn't have them?  I will agree with others that the conclusion is rushed, but then again, many other conductors often draw the ending out.  Though the sound is overall compressed, I can live with that.  Though I was in the chorus for M2 for three performances in an earlier part of my life, and have seen/heard several live performances since (yes, one of them was with Kaplan conducting ), I consider this one of the better ones (live or recorded) I have heard.  I hear/recall some bits and pieces of Bernstein, Klemperer, and Walter in this performance.  I'm surprised I haven't seen/heard Anna Larsson elsewhere in the contralto solos.  Anyone seen/heard where she has been as of late?

I usually watch the HD DVD of the Boulez version when I want to "see" M2. It has lossless sound, and is more vivid visually as well, because it is in HD. One would hope it would someday be released in Blu-ray as well. However, that Abbado version is very good, too.

I have mentioned on other threads about these videos that I get a little annoyed with the way the Lucerne orchestra members jump around and sort of show-off in the Abbado video. They are the same way in the video of M6 which is also quite good.

I also like the Haitink BPO video of M2. It also has DTS 5.1 sound and Sylvia McNair on hand as the soprano. However, Haitink's version is not formatted for 16x9 TVs and has no subtitles, which makes it rough going if you are showing it to a Mahler newbie.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I have a question about the orchestra and their choice of clothing. Usually when I attend a concert or opera, the conductor and male orchestra players wear white tie & tails. However, in the Boulez video, he and the male orchestra musicians simply wear dark suits. Are there occasions in which the orchestra dresses down? Is it done on matinees, or what?

[barry guerrero]

Interestingly, I was looking at a bunch of Berlin Phil. videos that are posted at their own web site, just last night. Since the time of this particular M2 DVD - and other ones done around that same period - I've noticed that the players of the BPO have tossed tossing their torsos all around the room. Somebody must have said something because there's an noticeable difference. I realize that the Abbado M2 was done with the LFO, but many of the players do come from the BPO. Anyway, it find these things much easier to watch when the players aren't whirling about. As a performer myself, it's quite unnecessary.

Barry

[waderice]

On a somewhat unrelated note, I have a question about the orchestra and their choice of clothing. Usually when I attend a concert or opera, the conductor and male orchestra players wear white tie & tails. However, in the Boulez video, he and the male orchestra musicians simply wear dark suits. Are there occasions in which the orchestra dresses down? Is it done on matinees, or what?

Orchestra player dress policies vary from orchestra to orchestra, from concert to concert, the occasion, the time of day, and whatever either the orchestra management or the conductor wants.  IMHO, I think the overriding factor most everywhere deciding the type of dress worn by the orchestra at any given concert is warranted by the occasion.

[waderice]

Interestingly, I was looking at a bunch of Berlin Phil. videos that are posted at their own web site, just last night. Since the time of this particular M2 DVD - and other ones done around that same period - I've noticed that the players of the BPO have tossed tossing their torsos all around the room. Somebody must have said something because there's an noticeable difference. I realize that the Abbado M2 was done with the LFO, but many of the players do come from the BPO. Anyway, it find these things much easier to watch when the players aren't whirling about. As a performer myself, it's quite unnecessary.

Barry

I'm like you - I don't like to see either orchestra players or instrumental soloists flail about while playing their instrument.  If anything, I think that not only takes away from the enjoyment of the performance, but also to my mind, it inhibits the player from putting that "extra effort" into attaining the best possible playing and interpretive results.  For example, I can't stand how Najda Salerno Sonnenberg flails about while playing her violin, if you've ever seen her play.  For a complete contrast to this type of exhibition, if you've ever seen the 1947 movie, "Carnegie Hall", take a look at how Jascha Heifetz plays the Tchaikovsky Concerto with Fritz Reiner.  What a world of difference!  That shows how great a violinist Heifetz was.