Author Topic: Mahler 9 at the BBC Proms  (Read 10111 times)

Offline Penny

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Mahler 9 at the BBC Proms
« on: August 09, 2014, 07:05:14 PM »
Last Monday evening (4th) I was lucky enough to go to the BBC Proms at the Royal Albert Hall in London for a performance of Mahler's 9th with Donald Runnicles conducting the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra.  I thought it was excellent, well played and very moving, but I haven't been able to find out much about the conductor or his credentials as a Mahlerian.   I wondered whether anyone else on this forum had heard this performance and if so, what their views were.

Offline waderice

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Re: Mahler 9 at the BBC Proms
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2014, 11:47:12 PM »
Donald Runnicles is one of the associate conductors of the Philadelphia Orchestra.  I saw him conduct a Philadelphia Orchestra concert a year or so ago in one of our subscription concerts, and can't remember exactly what the program was that he conducted, without checking my numerous concert program brochures, but I know it wasn't Mahler.  I do recall that the program he conducted was quite good.  However, I did a search as to what he has, or will be doing with the orchestra, and the following link hopefully will give you some information as to what he's up to:

http://www.philorch.org/search/node/donald%20runnicles

Wade
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 11:45:04 AM by waderice »

Offline Penny

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Re: Mahler 9 at the BBC Proms
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2014, 08:18:38 AM »
Thank you Wade, that's interesting.  I look forward to future performances of Mahler by Donald Runnicles. 

Offline stviemr

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Re: Mahler 9 at the BBC Proms
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 09:46:13 PM »
Bernstein more or less set the Mahler standard back in the 60s (when he pretty much single-handedly resurrected Mahler's work from the dusty shelves. If you listen to the pre-WWII performance of Mahler 9, such as the first recording by Bruno Walter in 1938, it is conducted almost passionless.  Then you hear Bernstein, it's intense almost every minute, from the loudest crescendo to the almost silent diminuendo.  I have heard recordings that are more recent, which I enjoy better - partly because recording technology has so markedly improved in recent years, and partly because we do have great conductors out there - but even the greatest sound at least marginally like Bernstein.


Offline waderice

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Re: Mahler 9 at the BBC Proms
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2014, 02:16:56 AM »
Bernstein more or less set the Mahler standard back in the 60s (when he pretty much single-handedly resurrected Mahler's work from the dusty shelves. If you listen to the pre-WWII performance of Mahler 9, such as the first recording by Bruno Walter in 1938, it is conducted almost passionless.  Then you hear Bernstein, it's intense almost every minute, from the loudest crescendo to the almost silent diminuendo.  I have heard recordings that are more recent, which I enjoy better - partly because recording technology has so markedly improved in recent years, and partly because we do have great conductors out there - but even the greatest sound at least marginally like Bernstein.

Welcome to the Gustav Mahler Board, stviemr, this being your first post.

There is so much, almost too much, that all of us have yet to learn about Mahler and Mahler performances, and generations to come will continue to discover about Mahler.  But there were quite a few prewar Mahler performances (if not recordings) that antedate Bernstein.  A fascinating historical box of Mahler recordings up to 1940 was recently released on the obscure Urlicht label that have been lovingly restored by two of the most renown recording restoration engineers in the world today, Mark Obert-Thorn and Ward Marston.  Here is a link to it on Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Gustav-Mahler-Issued-1903-1940/dp/B00EIPIL2M/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1407807166&sr=1-1

Included in this box is the Walter M9 you mention, which has totally different sound than the source for that same recording that you likely listened to.  While some members here have expressed disinterest in this set because the performances themselves exhibit performance mannerisms of an earlier age by the conductors themselves as opposed to contemporary performance standards, as well as dated technology, it is a valuable reference to hear how the earliest Mahler performances were done.  Additionally, the huge booklet included with this set contains extremely valuable Mahler symphony and song cycle performance information from Mahler's death up until WWII that cannot be found elsewhere, and is worth the cost of the set alone.  You will find in this book many conductors, some with familiar names associated with Mahler, and others you would never expect to program Mahler at all in their concerts who did so, probably in fear that their careers would be affected, because of the rampant antisemitism prevalent during that time, yet they knew that they were dealing with a genius.

Back to the 1938 Walter M9:  To your ears, the performance may sound passionless.  But consider the history as to how this recording became possible in the first place - at the time of the recording, Austria is in its eleventh hour of democracy before being taken over by Hitler, and even Walter himself was worried whether or not the performance, much less a recording of it, would ever take place.  No wonder Walter wasn't able to bring out the soul of Mahler in this performance; he had the shadow of antisemitism running rampant throughout Europe following him and was also worried about his own personal future.  The circumstances surrounding this recording are thoroughly documented in the booklet accompanying the Urlicht disks and elsewhere.  Bottom line, it is a miracle that this recording exists in the first place.  Compare Walter's adverse conditions in performing Mahler at that time with those of Bernstein who had the total opposite - a worry-free environment in which he was able to make his Mahler performances and recordings in the mold that he wanted them to be.

Wade
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 08:12:00 PM by waderice »

Offline John Kim

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Re: Mahler 9 at the BBC Proms
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2014, 01:45:48 PM »
You can listen to the concert here until 8/31:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p024fwlz


Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler 9 at the BBC Proms
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2014, 04:04:27 AM »
I'm not surprised that Runnicles would be good with the 9th. He's really good at Wagner and Bruckner (I love his Bruckner 7 on Hyperion). He got kind of bad rap at the S.F. Opera for being somewhat difficult to deal with. But I also think he did some great conducting here.

Offline pianobaba

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Re: Mahler 9 at the BBC Proms
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2014, 03:35:26 PM »
There is so much, almost too much, that all of us have yet to learn about Mahler and Mahler performances, and generations to come will continue to discover about Mahler.  But there were quite a few prewar Mahler performances (if not recordings) that antedate Bernstein.  A fascinating historical box of Mahler recordings up to 1940 was recently released on the obscure Urlicht label that have been lovingly restored by two of the most renown recording restoration engineers in the world today, Mark Obert-Thorn and Ward Marston.  Here is a link to it on Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Gustav-Mahler-Issued-1903-1940/dp/B00EIPIL2M/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1407807166&sr=1-1


Oh very cool, I have not heard of this collection before! I'll have to pick it up. My only pre-war Mahler is the Walter 9th and Mengelberg adagietto, some lieder, and the 4th (my favourite!)

 

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