Author Topic: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….  (Read 24354 times)

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2015, 05:08:33 AM »
Let's face it, we're spoiled!   :)

.    .    .  could you even imagine having this conversation 30 years ago?!?

Anyway, if the name of the game is to eliminate everything down to just one SACD, I guess I would have to say the Jonathan Nott on Tudor, even though Stenz has the slightly better ending to Part II (the best of anyone's, really). The Nott has just as good sound quality as the superbly recorded Zinman one; a pretty decent cast (including a tenor who's better than most); an excellent sounding organ, and pretty spectacular tam-tam smashes at the end (but Nott is just a bit quicker than Stenz or Bertini at the end [both very similar]). In general, Nott is a tad more 'lived in' and comfortable sounding throughout M8 than Stenz (except for the ending). I like owning them both.

https://play.spotify.com/album/1jf3OlRkDpPLl359bR2Eec/7chRlZ1DmaVb2eF3nuN4hj

As for Jansons, for whatever the reason, his Mahler with the Bavarian Radio S.O. (BRSO) sounds much more alive and 'on fire' than his Concertgebouw Mahler. That said, the Amsterdam M8 is pretty decent.

Phoenix, I don't think you can judge Gergiev's M8 by the finale of his M9. Pretty much ALL the Russian conductors take M9 faster than those residing further west. It's a Russian 'thang' - they seem to make a point of it. Gergiev's M8, on the other hand, is surprisingly very good - I think it's easily the best one in his cycle, along with the sixth (the first item in his cycle). Some of his other Mahler is a bit odd, indeed.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 07:00:06 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline BeethovensQuill

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2015, 10:28:27 AM »
I'd be in complete agreement with Barry as going for the Nott, my two favourites are the Tennstedt Studio and the Nott.  Like Barry i much prefer Tennstedt's studio to his live recording which just seems to pull the music in extremes.  My favourite section is Blicket Auf so i often judge a performance on how good the singing is in that section and how well paced it is. 

I think another favourite moment comes just at the end of Part 1 those final 2mins or so and at the end when the chorus splits in sections and each section rushes upwards, spine tingling music

What is everyone's favourite sections of Mahler 8?

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2015, 02:36:38 PM »
"What is everyone's favourite sections of Mahler 8?"

Among many, I like the big transition that happens right before the 'Penitent Women' passage. It sounds as though Mahler suddenly jumps up a key where Una Poenitentium joins in out of the ether (I'd have to go look at the score - Dover Edition).

To describe where I'm talking about, after the tenor's first long solo ("Hoschste Herrsherin der Welt"), there's the slow instrumental passage for soft unison violins, harps and harmonium (small chamber organ). This goes on for a while,  then the adult choruses join in softly ("Dir der Unberuhrbaren"). Towards the end of that passage Una Poenitentium joins in and then takes over. I'm not positive, but I think her first words are, "Du schwebst zu Hoehen" (you soar to the heights). There's a bass drum crescendo there. If it's done right, and if Una P. enters strongly enough, it gives the impression of a single woman's voice appearing out of the ether.

Interestingly enough, back during the soft instrumental part, this where it says in the text (libretto?) that Mater Gloriosa should 'soar into view'. I've always wondered if those were Goethe's own words, or if Mahler added that in (I'm assuming the latter). In the Dudamel dvd, this is where we see the slinky Kiera Duffy slowly glide into offstage position in a procession-like manner. It's distracting but WHO CARES! (what a gown).

In the Chorus Mysticus, I also like where the adult choruses sing "zieht uns hinan" loudly, just before the organ plunks down its huge chord (Eb, I presume) and everybody sings "alles vergaengliche" in unison. Again, there's a big bass drum crescendo there. Both these parts are pretty well executed - thrillingly, really - on the J. Nott sacd/cd hybrid.

One last favorite moment: I love it in those few instances - the Colin Davis being one of them - where the unison chorus really hangs on to the very last syllable it sings in the entire symphony: "hiiiiiiiiii-naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan". I've heard one or two instances where the conductor didn't want to take the offstage brass part slowly (they come in with the "Veni Creator" theme), but they still wanted "nan" to last longer than what Mahler indicates in the score, sooooo, they actually have the chorus hang on to "nan" for a few extra bars to get the right effect. That's using the old grey matter between the ears.




« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 03:08:04 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline Phoenix

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2015, 09:44:32 PM »
"Let's face it, we're spoiled!"  Barry, I thought that as soon as I read the first post.  Back in the '70s, when I got into Mahler, we had mainly the "Big Four" to pick from, and I'm sure you know which they were.  Back then we would never have dreamed we would have such a selection like we have today!  I actually more recordings of the 8th today than I did of 1st back then. 

Offline justininsf

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2015, 04:43:35 AM »
How is the Shaw/Atlanta on Telarc regarded?

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2015, 05:32:38 AM »
It's a decent Mahler 8 - better than it's sometimes regarded. But don't full price for it, as the Shaw M8 shows up quite frequently in bargain bins. You could probably get it very cheaply at Amazon from a third party. It's not among my favorites but it's worth hearing.

Offline hprill

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2015, 01:15:07 PM »
I guess my preferred M8 is the 1971 Philips recording with Haitink/Concertgebouw, which was reissued on SACD by PentaTone in quadrophonic sound.

Usually the symphony's second part seriously tests my patience, but Haitink's somewhat swifter tempo (70:45) makes this one eminently listenable. Soloists include Cotrubas, Harper, Prey, Sotin, all in great form. The sound is flawless.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2015, 04:19:02 PM »
Yes, I've always liked that cast (Haitink M8). I just wish the ending were a tad slower and had a bit bigger dynamic range. But maybe the Pentatone sacd has really 'opened up' that ending.

Offline justininsf

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2015, 10:01:29 AM »
Can you really hear a difference between SACD and 16/44.1?  Maybe not on topic, but have you compared it to the redbook version, since these are all hybrid versions we're talking about so if you have both a cd and sacd player you can compare.

Offline ChrisH

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2015, 07:26:06 PM »
It's hard to compare redbook and scarlet book as they may have been mastered differently for each format.

To answer your questions, it really depends on your playback equipment. And, most recordings aren't made in DSD, they are converted from PCM. There are only a handful of labels that truly use DSD the way it should be. If you use Foobar2k, you can download an ABX plugin and test for yourself. Channel Classics offers free sample of their recording in all the formats. It makes it easy to do a blind test.

Offline justininsf

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2015, 01:51:49 AM »
I just got the Bertini set in and gave a quick perusal of the 8th, not bad, good sound.

Offline justininsf

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2015, 01:44:35 AM »
How is the Rattle on EMI?

edit:  Oh what the heck, got it used off of amazon for $4.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 02:00:30 AM by justininsf »

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2015, 06:46:26 AM »
The Rattle has been reissued at mid-price, but you did even better than that. It has a somewhat better cast of singers = in general - than the Bertini and a much stronger organ. However, I don't think Rattle's tenor is any better than Bertini's. But I like Bertini's fast tempi through the 'Penitent Women' passage, as well as his ultra slow tempo for the end Part II. I'm also not a fan of the splashy sounding Paiste tam-tam at the end of the Rattle. France and England use Paistes, the rest of the world mostly uses Wuhans.

As a percussionist (at times), I greatly prefer Wuhans. But you have to know how to play them and you generally need to own at least two mallets (I own three). Players who are not used to Wuhans tend to underplay them. But in my book, they have a far better tone quality than the Paistes.

Offline James Meckley

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2015, 04:01:31 PM »
It's worth mentioning that the 2004 Rattle M8 was originally released in two different formats: as a standard Redbook CD and as a high-resolution DVD-Audio disc, containing both stereo and 5.1 surround options.

James
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 04:28:24 PM by James Meckley »
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
Henry Krehbiel, New York Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler

Offline justininsf

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Re: Seeking Mahler 8 recommendations….
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2015, 07:16:44 PM »
Since I've been buying more online I try to always get used as it's usually half price or sometimes even 1/4 price.  Don't think I've ever come across a faulty used CD.

in fact there's a music trade section on this site, I will start a thread there, I have so many CDs that would find a better home elsewhere.

edit:  I already started a thread in that section, hopefully there is interest:

http://gustavmahlerboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=2123.0
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 07:30:07 PM by justininsf »

 

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