O.T. - Dudamel Conducting Bruckner

[waderice]

Over at the Facebook Bruckner Forum (there's one for Mahler, too!), someone thought Dudamel ought to perform/record more Bruckner.  I responded saying that Bruckner doesn't fit Dudamel's personality, and that at this point in his career, he hasn't reached a spiritual level required to perform Bruckner sympathetically.  What do the rest of you think?

Wade

[AZContrabassoon]

I don't think Dudamel is ready for Mahler, but that's my opinion and I know many would disagree. Here's the problem: Dudamel treats everything I've heard like an orchestral showpiece. It works sometimes: that disk Fiesta of Latin numbers is terrific. But the music isn't very deep and can take it. I heard him do Mahler 1 live and was not impressed at all; I laughed at the stupid way he handled the rhythms of the 2nd movement. Maybe he's getting better, but I wasn't thrilled with the 7th recording. So what about Bruckner? Well, there are some who think Bruckner shouldn't be treated like some religious experience, and it should be more exciting, lively  - you know, an orchestral showpiece. Now if he were to go that road, there's no doubt it would go over well in LA, but not likely Vienna. I agree that there's just too much pomposity and unwarranted veneration of Bruckner. I like Solti's approach which horrifies some Bruckner fans. It will be interesting to see what Dudamel does with the Beethoven symphonies this year. There have been many conductors who have been cruelly exposed as 2nd rate by those nine symphonies. Let's hope Dudamel isn't one of them, because as much as I've been disappointed by him in some ways, I have to say that the DVD of the Mahler 8th on DG reveals his potential: it is the greatest 8th I've ever heard on or off record.

[barry guerrero]

Actually, there already exists a Bruckner 9 with Dudamel - on DG -  that he did in Gothenburg. It's part of a three disc set that also includes Sibelius 2 and Nielsen 4/5. I haven't heard it but it's supposed to be quite good. A coworker of mine owns this set and really likes it.

http://www.amazon.com/Sibelius-Symphony-Nielsen-Symphonies-Bruckner/dp/B00507ZQQG/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1438071438&sr=1-1&keywords=bruckner+dudamel

Sorry to be so disagreeable, but I think Solti was THE WORST conductor of Bruckner ever. In fact, he was pretty awful at most anything in Sonata Allegro form. And while the Dudamel Mahler 7 might not be the best (it's very good for a South American youth orchestra), I think it's far better than the Solti.

There are a lot of 'depends' here. Dudamel would be very good at Bruckner 6 and possibly B7. Bruckner 8 is very difficult to pull off for almost any conductor, even under the best of circumstances (I won't go into the reasons why I think this is so). Bruckner 5 is also quite problematic. But he would also be good at B3, and probably so-so with B4 (the slow movement and finale are deadly). Bruckner 1 and 2?   .    .    .   who cares!

I've seen Dudamel conduct several times in concert, and I think he's really quite good. Very clear, easy to follow and few, if any, histrionics on the podium. I agree that his Mahler 1 recording isn't top drawer. However, there's a Mahler 1 with him and Chicago that's far better.

And while his L.A. Mahler 9 may not be quite as heavy and profound as either Karajan or Bernstein, I think it displays incredible maturity for a conductor this young. So far, I think Dudamel is somewhat farther along at this point than Bernstein was at the same age. Just my zwei groschen.

[AZContrabassoon]

Where did I recently read that after a M1 in Berlin with Dudamel, a critic wrote that anyone who could conduct the Mahler First like that deserves a Nobel Prize?

I don't mind disagreeing about Solti's Bruckner - that's what makes classical listening fun is the give and take of differing opinions. Here's what I like about Solti: there's no holding back, the fortissimos are full-throated (what a brass section Chicago had in those days). And he moves the music along. Sometimes in Mahler his tempos seems on the quick side and rob the music of something, but in Bruckner, it's ok, since I am one of those who think Bruckner is too long winded, especially in 7 & 8. BTW, one of the most thrilling moments in recorded music is the coda of the Bruckner 6th from Solti - no one, not even the hallowed Klemperer, pulls it off like that.

[barry guerrero]

The end of the Chailly B6 is done real well. Sorry to have such a harsh opinion of Solti, but I just can't stand anything by him except operas, Wagner and Liszt. I don't even care for his Bartok. All that said, I do think he was better in his early years - the recordings he made in London, Amsterdam and Vienna. He was positively THE WORST conductor I've ever seen in a live concert, but that was also in the latter 1980's. Gordon Peters told me that Solti was pretty much deaf.

[justininsf]

I like Celibidache's Bruckner, slower than a snail on Klonopin.  But all this talk about Solti and tempo and loud brass is good enough for me to give the Solti Bruckner cycle a listen to.