Not sure whether to give van Zweden/Dallas M3 four or five stars (?)

[barry guerrero]

I picked up the van Zweden M3 and haven't composed a review for Amazon yet. Has anybody tried this? I like it very much, but I'm not sure it deserves a full five stars. Four and a half stars is more accurate. It's very good but it doesn't knock either the Honeck/Pittsburgh (Extpon) or the Alan Gilbert/N.Y. Phil. ones off of the shelf (the Gilbert/N.Y. isn't available as a commercial cd). From Europe, I very much like the Chailly/Concertgebouw; Boulez/VPO and Harding/Stockholm Phil. ones. That's not to mention several very good dvd versions (including Haitink's Kerstmatinee konzert M3).

[ChrisH]

I only made it through the first 3 movements yesterday. What I've heard so far is excellent. I do wish van Zweden would have divided his violins. Thomas Rolfs also gives one of the best posthorn solos I have ever heard. It just sounds right, to me. Alessi is also a bit more 'tame' in his solos, at least compared to his other recordings, but his sound is so pure, dark and huge it always works for me.

Personally, I find this recording to be very different than Gilbert or Honeck.  Van Zweden comes across as much more Wunderhorn, very lyrical and rhythmically incisive. Honeck and Gilbert are more unleashed and direct, at least to me. They are very different approaches to my ears. Maybe more a question of how you like your Mahler 3 cooked.

Looking forward to finishing it off later this evening.

[barry guerrero]

Great points. I'd love to hear your comments on the last three movements as well. Yes, I think Rolfs does do a lovely job on the posthorn solo. But there's one thing I'm a tad perplexed about   .   .   

.   .  on the Litton/Dallas recording (Delos), they had the posthorn solo played in a special 'antechamber' that somehow dispersed the sound more evenly around the hall. It doesn't sound like they used that here. It's not that I think it sounds better on the Litton recording, but it certainly sounds different than here.

I love the use of the deep military drum for the snare drum part in first movement of the Honeck recording. I think these shallow snare drums played with light sticks are, quite frankly, often times the wrong side. As a conductor, I would have the snare drum part doubled in many spots within the first movement, and ask the percussionists to use somewhat heavier sticks as well. 

[ChrisH]

.   .  on the Litton/Dallas recording (Delos), they had the posthorn solo played in a special 'antechamber' that somehow dispersed the sound more around the hall. It doesn't sound like they used that here. It's not that I think it sounds better on the Litton recording, but it certainly sounds different than here.

Meyerson Hall has a large reverb chamber that they can open and close, this allows them to lengthen or shorten the reverb time. I bet that's where he was playing.

[barry guerrero]

Is this insanity or what?   .    .    .   Besides the various 'burnt' copies of Mahler 3 that I possess (such as Alan Gilbert/N.Y. Phil.), I now own the commercial cd's of M3 from Abbado/VPO (the remastered reissue); Ozawa/BSO; Ashkenazy/DSO Berlin (Decca/Australian Eloquence); Salonen/L.A. Phil.; Chailly/Concertgebouw (sacd hybrid); Boulez/VPO (sacd hybrid), and Honeck/Pittsburgh    .    .    .   in addition to this van Zweden/Dallas.

That's not to mention the really fine dvd of M3 I have with Paavo Jarvi/Frankfurt RSO, and I plan to soon add the Haitink/Concertgebouw 'Kerstmatinee' performance on dvd as well.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME!!! (stop me before I buy M3 again!)

[James Meckley]

WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME!!! (stop me before I buy M3 again!)

You'll get no sympathy here. At last count I had 47 commercial recordings of Mahler 3, plus a few videos and countless air checks. As the great Edwin H. Land said, "If anything is worth doing, it's worth doing to excess."

James

[barry guerrero]

Yeah, I know. I think what's holding me back from writing a five-star review is that recently acquired 'burn' copy of the Harding/Royal Stockholm Phil. M3. The percussion are excellent in that one, as is the overall sound quality. I'm also not that crazy about mezzo Kelly O'Connor on the van Zweden, although the harmonized horns accompanying her are very good (nicely shaped phrasing). However, I do like van Zweden's quicker pacing in the last three movements - the part of the symphony where things can really drag.

[ChrisH]

Really enjoyed the final movements of this recording. I thought the last movement was paced very well. Almost one tremendous build up. He really saves it for the end. Kelly O'Connor seemed to have the wrong color/timbre of voice for this work, but the orchestral accompaniment worked so well and had great balances.

It surprised me too, how large the acoustical space sounds on this recording. I will spin this one a few more times for sure.

[barry guerrero]

Thanks again for your input. I know I'll probably be in the minority with this thought, but I feel that Keith Johnson's engineering of the van Zweden/Dallas M6 sounds better than this M3, IF one turns it up sufficiently (it's a low level recording). Still, the M3 sounds plenty good. I think I'm going to call it 4 1/2 stars at Amazon, when I finally get around to writing something.

[AZContrabassoon]

Maybe 1 star? Read this...

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2016/Mar/Mahler_sy3_DSO007.htm

[barry guerrero]

I couldn't possibly disagree more. Regarding Levine's/CSO M3: he's too fast with the two march episodes (in major) in the first movement, and basically too slow with the finale (and with a slightly rushed climax to the long brass chorale). Yes, it's very well detailed - it ought to be, it was a studio recording made in Medinah Temple. Maazel's M3 - both of them - are just way, WAY too slow, and - IMHO - Tennstedt never did make a really great recording of Mahler 3.

This makes me want to give van Zweden a five star review - simply because this guy is just so off base.

[James Meckley]

Edward Seckerson at The Gramophone wasn't impressed with this new Mahler 3 either, though he was a bit less direct in setting out his reservations.

http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/mahler-symphony-no-3-23

My copy of the recording came just yesterday and, though I haven't listened to it yet, I did enjoy the original broadcast.

James

[barry guerrero]

Seriously, I think I would give it 4.5 stars. I do like it but I wouldn't place it head of some of my favorites, the leaders of the pack being Honeck/Pittsburgh and A. Gilbert/N.Y.P.O. And by the way, regardless of what Dan Morgan says, the Ashkenazy/DSO Berlin M3 is actually very good, possibly the best M3 to have come out of Berlin so far.