Some M9 observations

[Roland Flessner]

At the risk of being expelled from the forum, I will confess that I bought M9 with Haitink and the BRSO, a live recording, more than a year ago but hadn't gotten around to listening to it. I guess I just wasn't ready for another M9 obsession, until now.

This is a terrific performance. It is sharply characterized, the orchestral playing is first rate, and the recorded sound is excellent. Haitink divides his violin sections antiphonally, a huge benefit in Mahler and a practice I don't think I've ever heard from him before. One can always quibble--some would prefer more demonic intensity in the Rondo Burleske--but that is not Haitink's way. Overall it is an outstanding M9.

I find that often, live recordings are lacking in depth and definition in the bass, but that is not the case here. The sound is as good as anything I've ever heard, transparent from top to bottom. The audience is dead silent.

Mariss Jansons has built the BRSO into a superb orchestra. They played Shostakovich 7 here in Chicago a few months ago, a performance of unbelievable precision and virtuosity. In my most recent M7 survey, Janson's live recording went to the top of the list.

As I listen to M9, I've been particularly impressed with Alan Gilbert/Stockholm, Dohnanyi/Cleveland and Ozawa/BSO. Stenz is a strong performance, but as I mentioned in a previous thread, contrapuntal detail tends to be obscured, even at moderate dynamic markings, odd in a modern recording.

Finally, I'll mention one of my M9 acid tests: In the second movement, at the end of the last fast dance episode, the tempo has been accelerating into delirium, but at bar 529, the tempo abruptly shifts back to Tempo I, much slower. Coming up to the bar line, the horns play their four ascending sixteenth notes, and these are to be at the fast tempo, a typical Mahlerian joke. However, a number of conductors slow down early, ruining the effect. Masur/NY is particularly egregious example, sad because the performance is otherwise one of the best.

[barry guerrero]

"I find that often, live recordings are lacking in depth and definition in the bass, but that is not the case here"

I'm guessing that the performance was in the Herkulessaal, and not the Philharmonie am Gasteig. Otherwise, you'd probably be saying just the opposite.

"The audience is dead silent."

An absolute necessity for any Mahler 9

"Mariss Jansons has built the BRSO into a superb orchestra"

Are you sure it's Jansons who should get the credit for that?  The BRSO performs and records with many different people. They were already darn good when Maazel  was doing lots of stuff with them.

.    .     .   "particularly impressed with Alan Gilbert/Stockholm, Dohnanyi/Cleveland and Ozawa/BSO"

I think all three of those are good also. You've mentioned several times that you find contrapuntal detail obscured on the Stenz recordings. I don't notice that problem with the sacd hybrid discs from that series. I wonder if the box was somehow 'dumbed down', in terms of sound quality (?). The finale to M7 is very clear, for example.

By the way, if it weren't for the stupid metallic "ping" hammer blows in the finale, the Dohnanyi/Cleveland M6 could be counted among the very best. Talk about contrapuntal clarity!

I like your "acid test" from the second movement. I'm more bothered by conductors who take the first walz section too quickly, shooting out of the gate all 'yickity-split'. I think it works much better to make each of the three walz sections somewhat faster than the last one - a 'progressive' approach, in other words.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Let me ask you this: what do think of the big climax (anti-climax) to the first movement on the Haitink?  Not only is the tam-tam marked fortissimo, the low brass are marked triple forte with the added words, "with the greatest possible force". Does Haitink get us close to that?

p.s. I've been enjoying two older Mahler recordings with the BRSO, both with Colin Davis: M4 and M8. I like them both.

[John Kim]

I second the enthusiasm for the Haitink/BRSO M9th CD. I fully agree with the review.

To answer Barry's question about the climax of I. Yes, Haitink gets all the details Barry mentioned right.

Some may prefer Haitink's earlier recording with RCO and I understand the decision. But this BRSO version is a strong contender.

John

[barry guerrero]

Well thanks guys. I think we've all been waiting for Haitink to make a strong follow-up to his original Concertgebouw M9. I'm definitely going to check this out for myself, as I very much like the BRSO in Mahler. It doesn't surprise me because Haitink has always been real strong with the Bruckner 9th. He's an 'autumnal' kind of guy.

John, what do you think of Haitink's Kerstmatinee M9?

And in turn, John, let me tell you that I still think that Dausgaard/Seattle S.O. M10 is really special.

This is flippant, but can we somehow convince Zubin Mehta to give a monster size M8 some place? I think he was born to do Mahler 8, but he keeps avoiding it.

[John Kim]

Again, the playing of BRSO is absolutely first rate with its deep and darkly hued timbre. The balance between different sections is perfect (largely to Haitink's credit). And sound is as good as it can be. This is one of the best played and recorded Mahler Ninths out there. Haitink's reading leans towards somber and autumnal mood, but all the climaxes are hit with gigantic effects and startling details.

As for Haitink's live M9th with RCO from the 80s, I just can't live with the inadequate sonics; tam tam at the climax of I is all but inaudible, dynamic range is compromised. It's still an excellent performance from the interpretative standpoint but I just wish it sounded better.

I'll definitely check the Seattle M10th. Thanks for the heads up.

John

[Roland Flessner]

"I'm guessing that the performance was in the Herkulessaal, and not the Philharmonie am Gasteig. Otherwise, you'd probably be saying just the opposite."

Barry, the BRSO M9 was recorded in the Philharmonie am Gasteig. The engineers obviously knew what they were doing.

Note this article from the Chicago Tribune, where John von Rhein describes the PaG acoustics as "dreadful":

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/vonrhein/ct-classical-jansons-ent-0413-20160412-column.html

I don't know where the Jansons/BRSO M7 was recorded. My download included an image of the front cover of the booklet, but not the rest.

In the Haitink M9, the big climax in the first movement features a powerful (but well blended) tamtam. I am also pleased to report that the quiet tamtam strokes early in the movement, and shortly after the big climax, are beautiful and atmospheric.

A dark horse among M9s: Kondrashin/Moscow Phil from 1964. I just played the first two movements last night, after not having heard it for quite a few years. The sonics are laughable, but this is an unbelievably passionate performance.

Yes, the BRSO has been a fine orchestra for many years. But both the Jansons M7 and the Haitink M9 display a level of virtuosity and precision that is rare in a live concert. Since this is especially typical of Jansons' performances, I tend to give credit to him.

[barry guerrero]

Fair enough. Thanks guys, I'll definitely give this a listen.

I actually Jansons' Oslo Phil. M7 more than his other ones.

[umbernisitani]

I don't know if I'm the only person to have the guts to say this, but Haitink's 1969 M9 1st movement had the weakest big climax of any recording I have ever heard. The Rondo-Burleske also fails to accelerate at all in the coda. Two peeves that ruins an otherwise rather splendid M9. The BRSO recording (as well as the ECYO live recording) deliver greater impact in these two spots.