Your opinion about Mahler's most colossal work

[shawn]

For very obvious reasons, Mahler 8 is very dear to me. A lot of people come late to this work. I was one of those people. But once it hit me, it has never left me.

Many of the composer's most beautiful melodies are in it. In other composer's hands it may become overtly sentimental, but Mahler finds a balance, it is masterfully crafted. And Mahler doesn't have to be the struggling composer at all times.

I really think of it as a 'light to light' symphony. Its positive outcome is never really in doubt. I also think of it as a theme-symphony, Mahler isn't remotely ambiguous about it. Some may find the first movement too much, but it doesn't bother me as such. The long orchestral prelude to the Second Part is a model of tension. And you gotta love the final moments, brass blazing, it's rather like hugging the love of your life.

I always express caution about calling it operatic!

If I am hard pressed to give recommended recordings, the Naxos/Wit is a solid choice (great playing, deep soundstage). For a more quicksilver alternative, I turn to Bertini (EMI). Of the more recent outings, Stenz is impressive (great ending and very well recorded). Gergiev is also special, but this has something to do with the reverberation and decay, adding something extra to its 'aura'.

If you crave for an oldie, I might mention Flipse/Rotterdam (not perfect, but it has many great moments, I have it on an official Rotterdam Philharmonic CD release).

But the recording that probably combines most of above's virtues, is Bernstein's from London (Sony). For instance, it has the most exciting moment leading up to the reappearance of the Veni, creator spiritus-theme. I don't know, something 'happens' which cannot be rehearsed in a thousand years. It is almost as if the sound becomes white-hot, other worldly, some kind of magical 'modulation' which cannot be duplicated in any other recording. How on earth did they manage to produce such a sound, especially considering the fact that the entire orchestra is playing! Wow. I wonder if other members of this board share the same feeling about this moment?

What is your opinion about the Mahler Eighth? 

[barryguerrero]

Shawn, I've ALWAYS had a fondness for Bernstein's 1966 LSO M8. I've always liked it better than the highly touted Solti. I also very much like your "light to light" comment. That pretty much summarizes the piece. In addition to the ones you've listed, I also like the Jonathan Nott, JoAnn Falletta, Edo DeWaart and Hartmut Haenchen M8 recordings. My personal favorite of any is the Colin Davis, but only in the BR Klassik box set of Mahler symphonies. The sound is quite a bit improved over the original RCA issue. I very much like the cast on the Boulez/DG M8, but just wish it had a stronger ending to Part II (end of Part I is great).  At times, I have a certain fondness for the Maazel/VPO M8. I just wish it weren't so 'lethargic' in spots.

Also, keep in mind that M8 has been quite lucky on dvd. I have Bernstein/VPO, Dudamel and his cast of a thousand, Chailly/Gewandhaus and Pavo Jarvi/Frankfurt R.SO. on dvd. Of those, I like the Chailly best, but also enjoy the Dudamel from time to time. I have the P. Jarvi more for the M7 that it comes with.

I'm looking forward to the Adam Fischer/Dusseldorf M8 that'll be coming out this fall. It may not blow the walls down, but it should be quite musical. However, I don't know anything about several of his cast members.

The Bernstein/LSO was THE recording that convinced me that M8 is a great piece.

[ChrisH]

To be honest, when I was much younger I didn't really enjoy the 8th. I couldn't come to terms with the singing and wished I could get a recording that just had the orchestral part; I also felt that way about Wagner, too. Why couldn't we just get the amazing music, and not have to deal with all of this atrocious singing. Now it's one of my favorites, and I love the vocal aspect. As I reached my mid-thirties, I started to really enjoy the added texture and color that the voice provides in contrast with the orchestra. It was the first thing I listened to after getting home from the Hospital when my daughter was born.

This is also the closest mature work that may show us what a Mahler opera would be like. A Mahler opera would have been amazing. It's unfortunate that he didn't attempt one, but I understand why he would not. Still, it would have been totally one of a kind.

Recordings that I enjoy are Chailly/Leipzig on blu-ray, Gielen/SWR Baden-Baden, Maazel/New York, and Stenz/Gurzenich.

[barryguerrero]

Indeed, the Gielen is another good one. Do have an actual cd of the Maazel/N.Y.?     .    .    .   I ask because I think that N.Y. cycle was just available as a download (not that there's anything wrong with that).

[ChrisH]

Indeed, the Gielen is another good one. Do have an actual cd of the Maazel/N.Y.?     .    .    .   I ask because I think that N.Y. cycle was just available as a download (not that there's anything wrong with that).

No actual CD. Just the download from HDtracks.com. That is the only place I know of that has those recordings.

[barryguerrero]

Understood. Thank you.

[hrandall]

Barry, please check for a direct message from me re: this thread. 

[barryguerrero]

Hmmmm  .    .   .   I checked my messages and I don't see anything more recent than 2018.

[hrandall]

Barry, odd - I see it in my sent messages here. Anyway, do you mind dropping me an email so I can reply to you? hrandall at mac dot com

[barryguerrero]

I sent you a PM, as I don't seem to have your e-mail saved. My e-mail is barrygrrr@yahoo.com

[erikwilson7]

I was the same way as Vehemence when it comes to the Eighth. For the longest time I didn't listen to or like the Eighth because of the vocal aspect (as with Das Lied von der Erde), but now it's one of my favorites. The more I listened to it, the more I liked the singing. I come from an orchestral background (percussion), so singing was on the opposite side of the spectrum for me. I would actually consider Mahler's Eighth to be the work that got me interested in vocal music in general. Now I'm slowly but surely approaching Strauss, Wagner, and Puccini operas. I'm relatively young (25), so the world of opera is understandably daunting and feels like an entirely different beast than the orchestral repertoire I'm so acquainted with.

It was Kent Nagano's recording that convinced me that Mahler's Eighth is indeed a masterpiece. The glorious sound of this recording with the voices balanced equally with the orchestra is what allowed me to approach it comfortably. That's still one of my favorite recordings, but my top choice is Stenz followed by Chailly/Concertgebouw. The Bertini is amazing too. As a whole, this piece seems to have so much magical essence that when listening to a recording all the way through it almost never fails to satisfy (given the vocal soloists are good).

All of Mahler's symphonies are flawed (most obviously the structure of the inner movements of the Second and Sixth), but I find the Eighth to be perhaps the least flawed along with, arguably, the Fifth. That's just an opinion, of course.

[shawn]

Mahler, in general, was responsible for the fact that I came to appreciate and love vocal music. I was blown away when I first heard the First, Fifth, later the Seventh, Ninth, etc..... but I always, regrettably, gave his songs and vocal symphonies a wider berth. In hindsight, I can't fathom why I felt that way back then, but after reading the posts in this topic, I can see I wasn't alone in this.

The Eighth is, what, 80 to 90% about music where voices can be heard? If you would have asked me 25 years ago if I was prepared to sit through the whole thing, I would probably and reluctantly have done so, with the telephone number of my psychiatrist at hand! (OK, slight exaggeration... but you get my point).

To me, the human voice is like any other musical instrument. It has to be motivated by a thought, a story, a wish, a longing, a love, an ideal. Without that, it doesn't speak to me. That's why I really like opera, but the story is crucial to me. I could stay up all night listening to La Bohème (Puccini, not Leoncavallo), but I would return to bed when asked to sit through Bizet's Carmen. It's a superficially exciting work with many of 'opera's greatest hits', but I just don't connect to it. To each his own. Verdi is a giant, but I would prefer almost every Puccini opera to the former's.