Author Topic: Gramophone Magazine's rave review of Kirill Petrenko's new M7th  (Read 872 times)

Offline brunumb

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Re: Gramophone Magazine's rave review of Kirill Petrenko's new M7th
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2021, 01:29:05 AM »
Personally, I've found myself putting the Mahler down, and listening to a lot more opera. Initially, this started after reading the HDLG's books, and wanting to know more about what Mahler was actually listening and conducting during his life. Maybe, even giving more insight in to his music. Essentially, I put Mahler the composer down, to try and understand Mahler the man/conductor/composer.

That really resonated with me Vehemence.  It would be great if you, or someone else, could start a thread sharing your knowledge of some of the works that Mahler loved and conducted.  I love opera and I know that Mahler was renowned for his opera performances.  Listening to them while making some sort of connection with Mahler might enhance my appreciation of both.  What were his favorite works and who were his favorite composers?

Offline James Meckley

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Re: Gramophone Magazine's rave review of Kirill Petrenko's new M7th
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2021, 10:15:55 PM »
That really resonated with me Vehemence.  It would be great if you, or someone else, could start a thread sharing your knowledge of some of the works that Mahler loved and conducted.  I love opera and I know that Mahler was renowned for his opera performances.  Listening to them while making some sort of connection with Mahler might enhance my appreciation of both.  What were his favorite works and who were his favorite composers?

I'm sure Vehemence will be able to offer some helpful insights based on his readings, but for the complete picture I would recommend appendices III and VI in Knud Martner's book Mahler's Concerts (Kaplan Foundation, 2010). Appendix III deals with his concerts and appendix VI deals with his opera performances, listing composer, title, and number of times performed. In the opera category, these works were the ones he performed most often:

Beethoven
Fidelio - 72

Humperdink
Hänsel und Gretel - 50

Mozart
Don Giovanni - 59
Le nozze di Figaro - 83
Die Zauberflöte - 74

Smetana
The Bartered Bride - 53

Verdi
Falstaff - 22

Wagner
Der fliegende Holländer - 29
Götterdämmerung - 28
Lohengrin - 44
Die Meistersinger - 46
Das Rheingold - 47
Siegfried - 57
Tannhäuser - 92
Tristan und Isolde - 71
Die Walküre - 87

Weber
Der Freischütz - 66

BTW, I've been concentrating for the last year or so on J.S. Bach's keyboard works and the symphonies of Anton Bruckner—how's that for contrast? I just ordered William Carragan's new book, Anton Bruckner: Eleven Symphonies - A Guide to the Versions, known in Bruckner circles as "The Red Book."
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 07:30:27 AM by James Meckley »
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
Henry Krehbiel, New York Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler

Offline brunumb

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Re: Gramophone Magazine's rave review of Kirill Petrenko's new M7th
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2021, 07:17:14 AM »
Thanks for taking the time to post that James.  Apart from the Wagner, most of the others I rarely listen to.  Perhaps I need to remedy that.  This year I have been getting into Bruuuuckneeerrr (as David Hurwitz might say it).  I really like No.4 (that seems to be the popular one) and No.7, but there are none that I dislike so far.
Cheers.

Offline barryguerrero

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Re: Gramophone Magazine's rave review of Kirill Petrenko's new M7th
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2021, 09:56:16 AM »
I'm going to add my two cents and you guys can love it or hate it, I don't care. As opposed to Mahler, Bruckner took longer to get really 'good' with his symphonies. I can't stand the Facebook Bruckner group, because those people spend so much time, and make so many postings, trying to convince themselves and each other just how great Bruckner Symphony #2 is. It's anything but a great symphony. I'm not even sure it's a 'good' symphony. Regardless, B3 was clearly a quantum leap forward, irrespective of which version you listen to. B1, at least, has a very good scherzo - better than the one in B2, in my book. B7 is my favorite, fully completed Bruckner symphony, but I also greatly admire B8 (both versions). I think the sketches for a B9 finale don't sound very good, and there's really no point when the entire coda is missing. To me, what is 'there', sounds more like the start of a 10th symphony than a completion of the 9th. Others may feel differently. I like William Carragan, I think he's pretty much a nice guy, but no way would I buy that book and read tons of detail on millions of different Bruckner versions and editions. Life is too short  .    .   .   .  or too long, depending on your perspective.

And just to show that I'm an equal opportunity hater, I can't tolerate the various Facebook Mahler groups either. There's just so much misinformation and complete utter nonsense. I get worn out when dealing with such an 'amateur hour' place. It's dispiriting!  Just try getting those people to read an accurate and  serious Mahler biography, such as Jens Malte Fischer's. They won't even go extract some of the tons of good information that's at Marina Mahler's "Mahler Foundation" website. If you folks haven't taken a really good look at the Mahler Foundation site, do yourselves a favor and check it out.

One of you mentioned "Das Klagende Lied". I really think you couldn't do any better than the recent 'live' Gielen one on Orfeo, recorded in Vienna's Konzerthaus with the Vienna Radio Orchestra. That's one case where I truly agree with Dave Hurwitz's assessment.   
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 06:11:21 PM by barryguerrero »

Offline ChrisH

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Re: Gramophone Magazine's rave review of Kirill Petrenko's new M7th
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2021, 01:09:18 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to post that James.  Apart from the Wagner, most of the others I rarely listen to.  Perhaps I need to remedy that.  This year I have been getting into Bruuuuckneeerrr (as David Hurwitz might say it).  I really like No.4 (that seems to be the popular one) and No.7, but there are none that I dislike so far.
Cheers.
James hit the nail on the head, as I was going to point you to that book, too.
I would also suggest checking out the R. Strauss operas, Elektra, Salome, Die Frau ohne Schatten, and Der Rosenkavalier. Also, Der Zwerg by Zemlinsky, and any of the Janacek operas. I think Mahler would have loved them.

Offline barryguerrero

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Re: Gramophone Magazine's rave review of Kirill Petrenko's new M7th
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2021, 06:20:44 PM »
Mahler would have either been fascinated by Janacek's operas and later works, or he would have avoided them out of jealousy (no pun intended). If Mahler had survived his illness and lived longer, I think he would have worked through his personal insecurities to the point that the first scenario would have been far more likely. The problem is that Janacek didn't write his greatest works until quite late in his life. Mahler would have had to survived at least a few more decades, which then brings up the whole business of interference from two world wars, the great depression and the Holocaust. Also, keep in mind that it took Charles MacKerras to get the entire issue of corrections, editions and new printings straightened out. The world wide popularity of Janacek operas is a much more recent phenomenon. Still, I really agree with Tom's point.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 07:28:26 PM by barryguerrero »

Offline akiralx

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Re: Gramophone Magazine's rave review of Kirill Petrenko's new M7th
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2021, 08:25:45 AM »
Mahler would have either been fascinated by Janacek's operas and later works, or he would have avoided them out of jealousy (no pun intended). If Mahler had survived his illness and lived longer, I think he would have worked through his personal insecurities to the point that the first scenario would have been far more likely. The problem is that Janacek didn't write his greatest works until quite late in his life. Mahler would have had to survived at least a few more decades, which then brings up the whole business of interference from two world wars, the great depression and the Holocaust.

Interestingly, Mahler acolyte Otto Klemperer *was* a devotee of Janacek's works as a young conductor, performing Jenufa in 1918, and Kat'a Kabanova in 1922, and preparing to conduct From The House of the Dead and The Excursions of Mr Broucek, though the last two never happened, sadly (Broucek owing to the impossibility of getting a German translation). He also planned to conduct The Cunning Little Vixen and The Makropoulos Affair.

He also took up the Sinfonietta in the concert hall, giving the first German performance of it - though sadly not Taras Bulba which would probably have been epic in OK's hands!  When asking permission to conduct the Sinfonietta, he simply wrote a letter addressed to 'Mr Leos Janacek, Composer, Brünn' - which got to him, Brünn being the German name for Brno.

 

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