Author Topic: Bertini revisited  (Read 30507 times)

Offline Damfino

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 198
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2007, 05:32:00 PM »
Quote
This makes me question how stupid we all are, buying dozens upon dozens of recordings of the same work for big bucks when we can find an fine set like the one mentioned. It makes us all look like junkies in search of the ultimate fix.  Embarrassed

I certainly agree in terms of sets.  It can get costly, and with most sets, you have a clinker or two to contend with.  However, I do not feel it is quite so foolish to have a few extras of the individual symphonies.  Though I must say, once I find one or two versions I like, I tend to feel I do not need the extra copies and sell them off.  I have two complete cycles (Haitink and Bertini) and cannot see buying any more sets (I already sold Kubilek's on ebay).  I have extra singles of all the other symphonies except for the 3rd, which IMO is well represented in my two cycles.  I have more 2nds han I need, even after selling off several.  Often I feel that the next new recording must surely be "the one I have been waiting for", and often cannot resist giving them a try. 

My real sickness has been with Beethoven cycles.  At one point, I owned about 9 complete cycles.  After selling several on ebay, I am down to 3.  I do not have room for more, and I like what I have so well, I think I can safely say I am out of the Beethoven set collecting business.

Offline barry guerrero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3928
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2007, 05:36:37 PM »
I'd be curious to know what three you settled with.

Offline Damfino

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 198
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2007, 08:20:38 PM »
You mean the Beethoven sets?  I kept Bruno Walter's Columbia set.  That was the first complete cycle I bought on LP back in the 70's on the Odyssey label.  However, the broad tempos are a tad too broad for me these days, so I do not play it as much.  But, I cannot bring myself to part with it.  Actually, the only ones where the tempos annoy me are the 7th and 9th.  The finale of the 9th just lays there, and the 7th's first movement is too slow, IMO.  Walter's 6th is often considered the best ever.

I also have Kurt Masur's 2nd Leipzig Gewandhaus set.  This was well recorded digitally, and uses that edition that sort of lightens the sound of the symphonies (the approach taken by Abbado, Rattle, et al).  The soloists in the 9th include Jard Van Nes and Sylvia McNair, who are also distuinguised Mahlerites as well.  The Masur set is quite affordable ($30-ish), and IMO a much better value than pricier versions that take the same approach.

However, I really do not like to hear some of Beethoven's symphonies in this new modern (actually retro, I guess) style.  The Eroica, for one, never seems to have the proper weight and grandeur performed that way.  So, I guess I really prefer Beethoven in the old style, with a bigger sound, but not with lumbering temos.  These brings me to the set that is my current first-stringer-Herbert Blomstedt and the Dresden Staatskapelle.  These were recorded in the last bloom of great analog recording in the late 70's.  The sound is approately "big", though a tad reverberant.  However, the woodwinds are always crystal clear.  I do not remember the names of the soloists in the 9th, but all are good (I hate 9ths where the soprano cannot pull off the finale).  The Eroica is the way I like it, with a soaring quality.  The abrupt changes from piano to forte that Beethoven used, and which were shocking in his day are very apparent in these recordings ( I think those effects are diminished in the more modern ones).  The main theme of the opening movement of the 7th was just a tad slow, but I did get used to it, and now quite like it.  The 6th is on a par with Walters, though recorded better.  Like Bertini's Mahler set, there are no duds here, and @ approx. $20, the set is an outright steal, IMO.  Blomstedt seems to be a conductor no one ever hears about.  His Mahler 2nd with the SFSO is the one I seem to be playing the most these days.

Among the Beethoven sets I sold on ebay: Lenny's Vienna Phil set, Harnoncourt, Von Dohnanyi's Cleveland, Solti's analog CSO, Karajan's first Berlin cycle (I have the 9th as a single).  I think I may have sold nother, but cannot remember now.  Of that group, I thought Harnoncourt's to be the worst, and I think I only played it once. 

Wunderhorn

  • Guest
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2007, 08:26:11 PM »
I've owned the Karajan '63 set, the Karajan digital, and the (would have been good, if not on period instruments) Gardiner set.

Offline Leo K

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1368
  • You're the best Angie
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2007, 09:45:04 PM »
Thanks Damfino for that nice overview...I've been on the hunt for a good 'recent' Beethoven cycle for awhile...besides the Furtwangler I already have (my favorite Beethoven conductor).

Offline barry guerrero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3928
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2007, 09:28:57 AM »
Actually, the Blomstedt set is probably my very favorite set as well. He's a solid, mainstream conductor of Austro/German works, and the Staatskapelle Dresden sound fabulous. I like the Klemperer ones also.

Barry
« Last Edit: March 11, 2007, 06:20:28 AM by barry guerrero »

Offline chalkpie

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2011, 04:42:41 PM »
talk about an olde thread......

I am considering pulling the plug for the Bertini EMI box from Clamazon for roughly $32 including shipping. Do I really need this? State your case!

Offline wagnerlover

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2011, 05:07:38 PM »
I have the set (have had it for over a year).  It's extremely well conducted, played and recorded throughout.  I must say however, that in my list of "go-to" recordings, the ones I actually pull off the shelf when I want to hear a particular Mahler work -- none are from the Bertini box.

Other sets I have include Kubelik (DG and Audite), 3 Bernstein sets (DC and DVD), NYPO broadcasts, Bruno Walter.

And many individual recordings.

If I had to keep only one set, it would probably be the Columbia Bernstein.

db

Offline chalkpie

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2011, 06:02:20 PM »
Yeah, that is sort of why i have hesitated this long to buy it. It seems to be a super-solid set overall but very rarely have I seen instances of Mahlerjunkies stating the Bertini M__ as their favorite version of that work.

Offline chalkpie

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2011, 03:49:47 PM »
OK - I pulled the trigger on The Bertini Box...32.90 including shipping. I've paid more for an oil change at Jiffy lube.

I'll chime in when I've eaten this thing for dinner.

Offline Leo K

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1368
  • You're the best Angie
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2011, 02:07:24 PM »
Excellent buy!

Bertini's box is indeed incredible, through and through. This set was a surprise to me. I held off for awhile too, wondering whether another box was worth it. Well, on first listen, to Bertini's M2, I was floored at the nuance and sound of the orchestra.

I would be happy if I just had Bertini's and Bernstein's 1st cycle.
I could live with just those two.

Offline waderice

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 649
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2011, 02:53:54 PM »
OK - I pulled the trigger on The Bertini Box...32.90 including shipping.
How about telling us where you found it at this price?  That's around 12 bucks cheaper than Amazon.com.

Wade

Offline barry guerrero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3928
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2011, 05:16:09 PM »
"It seems to be a super-solid set overall but very rarely have I seen instances of Mahlerjunkies stating the Bertini M__ as their favorite version of that work."

What drives the Bertini set is its incredibly consistency in terms of sound quality and orchestral execution, combined with Bertini's full understanding of how each work fits into the overall Mahler narrative - from the youthful first symphony to the 10th symphony Adagio. It's like listening to the complete "Ring" as an ongoing narrative, as opposed to comparing recordings of the four separate operas.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 09:00:05 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline John Kim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2632
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2011, 07:23:11 PM »
"It seems to be a super-solid set overall but very rarely have I seen instances of Mahlerjunkies stating the Bertini M__ as their favorite version of that work."

What drives the Bertini set is its incredibly consistency in terms of sound quality and orchestral execution, combined with Bertini's full understanding of how each work fits into the overall Mahler narrative - from the youthful first symphony to the 10th symphony Adagio. 
In this department, I'd cite de Waart/NRPO/RCA cycle on the same level. Very well played, recorded, and interpreted. Not too extreme, but not too rounded either, this is as fine as any other set including Bertini, Kubelik and Haitink.

John,

Offline barry guerrero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3928
Re: Bertini revisited
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2011, 07:25:43 PM »
I like the DeWaart cycle as well. But remember, the Bertini box comes with a really good "DLvdE" with Ben Heppner and Marjana Lipovsek.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk