Author Topic: van Zweden/CSO M6  (Read 8172 times)

Offline Roland Flessner

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van Zweden/CSO M6
« on: May 01, 2022, 12:05:05 AM »
Last week I heard M6 with the CSO led by Jaap van Zweden. In its way it was an excellent performance, but it seemed to alternate between two volume levels, too loud and way too loud. Orchestra Hall presents challenges; it’s too small for such a large orchestra, and the acoustic reflector flattens dynamics while acting as a huge microphone. It scrambles perspective, too. At times I wondered if all eight horns were sitting next to me. String tone is almost nonexistent, at least in the upper balcony.

Previously I’ve heard M6 in Orchestra Hall with Gielen, Slatkin, and Haitink, and all seemed to scale the orchestra to the hall more effectively.

As for the (two) hammerblows, both nearly sent me flying out to Michigan Avenue. To me, Mahler’s instructions--”short, dull, powerful, non-metallic, like the stroke of an axe”--suggest that on the spectrum from sharp crack to dull thud, something closer to the latter, living mostly in the bass range, would meet his wishes. In this performance the CSO used a large wooden box, very much of the sharp crack persuasion. If covered with a blanket or carpet, it might have been about right.

In my post-concert perusal of some unfamiliar performances, Gilbert/NYPhil earns an honorable mention for transparency and detail, especially in the woodwinds. His “Alma” theme could use more lilt, and his hammer sounds like a pulp novel dropped on a tray table purchased at Target. Simone Young/Hamburg is really an fine recording, the program notes making a strong case for A-S order. I’ve tended to prefer S-A not from conviction but from habit.

The recording that most impressed me, so much so that I’m not currently in the mood to listen to any others, is Paavo Järvi/NHK. It’s a committed performance that never puts a foot wrong, features top-level orchestral execution, and is presented in a transparent recording that reveals much detail. Even the hammer is, to my ears, idiomatic.

Offline barryguerrero

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Re: van Zweden/CSO M6
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2022, 06:48:31 AM »
The Paavo Jarvi is one of two recent M6 recordings that impress me very much - the other being the even more recent Adam Fischer/Dusseldorf one. I think the latter is farther better than Ivan Fischer's rather lightweight Budapest M6.

I also own a copy of van Zweden's Dallas recording of M6. It received lukewarm reviews, but I think it's really good. It's a low level recording - much lower than the van Zweden/Dallas M3 that came out a decade later (and garnished much praise). Many folks simply don't know what to do with low level recordings.

Your comments about the live performance of M6 in Orchestra Hall are interesting. I also agree that we've actually gone a bit overboard with the finale's hammer strokes. Like you, I think a somewhat duller sound is more appropriate. Thank you for your report, Roland.

Offline Roland Flessner

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Re: van Zweden/CSO M6
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2022, 02:26:32 PM »
Ádám Fischer/Düsseldorf M6 is of keen interest. So far I've heard only his M3 and found it top notch. Since they're all on Idagio I'll fire it up when the mood strikes.

I've rarely been accused of being a reliable arbiter of taste, but I find a theatrical aspect of M6 hammerblows in some live concerts. This is music that expresses a profound disturbance and a carnival atmosphere seems incongruous. Sure it should be visible, but it doesn't have to evoke a cartoon circus scene.

When I heard Vänskä's M6 in Minneapolis years ago I had a similar reaction to van Zweden--too loud and aggressive. Since acoustics there are much better than here in Chicago, I can't blame it on that. The recording is probably much better, another one I'll get around to eventually. At the moment I'm obsessed with Schoenber's Pelleas und Melisande, a work that may be the subject of a separate OT post.

Offline John Kim

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Re: van Zweden/CSO M6
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2022, 05:26:53 PM »
For me, the best M6th on a single disc is Pierre Boulez/Staatskapelle Dresden/DG which I raved and gave a review about previously.

Any chance Zweden/CSO M6th will be released?

John

Offline Roland Flessner

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Re: van Zweden/CSO M6
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2022, 06:23:47 PM »
>> Any chance Zweden/CSO M6th will be released?

John, I doubt that a CSO Resound release would be likely, given that those are usually limited to "house" conductors (Muti and the late Maestro Haitink).

Next season will be the last for Muti as music director. He'd been expected to leave after this season but stayed because of COVID.

Offline akiralx

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Re: van Zweden/CSO M6
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2022, 04:58:57 AM »
Ádám Fischer/Düsseldorf M6 is of keen interest. So far I've heard only his M3 and found it top notch. Since they're all on Idagio I'll fire it up when the mood strikes.

I've rarely been accused of being a reliable arbiter of taste, but I find a theatrical aspect of M6 hammerblows in some live concerts. This is music that expresses a profound disturbance and a carnival atmosphere seems incongruous. Sure it should be visible, but it doesn't have to evoke a cartoon circus scene.

I can quote part of my review of a 2015 performance in Melbourne by the Australian Youth Orchestra under Sir Mark Elder:

Elder's interpretation was fairly orthodox and it was straightforwardly played but with interesting timbres he conjured, especially from the winds.  The three hammer blows were played by a strapping six foot youth with an enormous mallet striking a wooden object (I couldn't see clearly), giving a satisfying fortissimo crash - it wavered slightly the first times he lifted it over his head, so the trombones were in danger of receiving severe blunt force trauma… it certainly jolted a few of the audience, many of whom were parents and siblings of the performers and probably not avid Mahlerians.  The subsequent times he picked it up a frisson of tension palpably went through the audience.

 

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