So why do labels start Mahler cycles, only to give up on them!?!

[barryguerrero]

These seems to happen time and time again. Record labels make huge announcements about starting a new Mahler cycle with tons of enthusiasm, only to give up on the project somewhere downstream - simply because they don't sell like Madonna records. Is this stupid or what?!?  .   .   . The trend to give up started with the Haitink/Berlin cycle on Philips. Actually, RCA dropped any attempt at completing James Levine's Mahler cycle, allegedly having to do with his first known scandal with a minor. Even though the first two releases of Mahler with Andrew Litton and the Dallas Symphony made something of a relative splash, Delos never did release the long promised 8th symphony from Dallas with Litton (which I was greatly looking forward to). And now were getting this sudden 'Mahler release constipation' from Pentatone. Don't bother with the hype if you can't see something through to the end.

[erikwilson7]

Less exciting but still worth mentioning: whatever happened to the Netopil/Essen recordings? There's another cycle I was expecting. And the new P. Järvi project has been quiet since the first release of M5 (which I thought was really quite good).

It's as if the promise of a cycle is a tool that labels use to generate excitement and sell a few records, and hope people eventually forget about the promise.

[John Kim]

Philips actually acknowledged that the reason why they decided to discontinue the Haitink/BPO Mahler cycle was because their CDs weren't selling well. They had only two more to go: M8th & 9th.

John

[waderice]

It's all about economics.  In other words, how well are the so-far released recordings of whomever's given cycle selling?  I'm certain that all of the labels turning out CDs of a given conductor's cycle have their economic crystal ball gazers looking at how well their particular cycle is selling, and what they project how well the cycle will sell on down the line.  To them, they want to sell, but crystal ball gazing is risky at best.

One big disappointment for me:  I had hoped that the full cycle of the Markus Stenz/Gurzenich-Orchester Köln as a box set would have been released in SACD format.  Instead, when I put in my order for the full cycle, I found that after it arrived, it was only produced as regular CD only.  So Oehms (the label for this cycle) must have found that there wasn't enough funding available to produce the entire cycle as a box set in SACD format.

[shawn]

I think conductors ought not to feel obliged to establish a complete Mahler cycle. I honestly think we are all better off when conductors only pick the numbers they feel strongest about. Prime example is Haitink. He only did No. 8 for Philips because his cycle would not have been complete without it. His performance is certainly professional and every note is in place, but you can feel he didn't care for this symphony.

I'm certainly not of the opinion that too much Mahler is a bad thing, but quality should always prevail over quantity. I know, in the end it's all a matter of personal taste, but just because we can call a cycle 'complete' doesn't automatically mean it's one for the ages.

[barryguerrero]

You know, Shawn, I used to think about about Haitink's recording of M8 on Philips too. But then I listened to the Pentatone remastering of it, and I completely changed my mind over it. I think it's a wonderful M8, with the exception of Haitink taking the ending of the "Chorus Mysticus" at an almost ridiculously fast pace. However, Haitink slowed that down a bit in his live 1988 performance that you can see and hear on Youtube. The visual element is absurdly dark looking, which is why I believe this has never made it onto DVD. Soprano Gwyneth Jones' contribution has been somewhat controversial, but I like what she does. Check it out and see what you think  .   .   .  .  I think the difference between the original Philips issue and the Pentatone reissue of Haitink's first and only M8 recording, just goes to show how much sound quality really IS an issue with a work that has such a huge dynamic range, and a vast range of styles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjbc5qrFJK8&t=832s

All that said, I completely agree with your overriding point. I don't think Mahler symphonies defeat people any more, but I think complete cycles can and do.

[shawn]

Yes, the live version is quite spectacular, I believe it was filmed during the celebration of the Concertgebouw's centennial. It's much more of an event. I'm afraid I haven't heard the studio M8 in its Pentatone incarnation, I will look in to that.

I find myself to be more sympathetic to Haitink's first Mahler cycle. At first, I loved it, but gradually I found it to be a bit generic and lacking in charisma. But in recent years, I felt its lack of histrionics can actually be an advantage. This is music that doesn't need to be in your face the whole time. I especially like Nos. 2 and 9 in this cycle, again not because they are heart on sleeve, but for their sheer musicality. And that’s something we never should take for granted.

I’ve heard and read some very disparaging comments being made about Haitink and especially his Mahler. All in all, I think he was a great Mahler conductor. His personality wasn’t exactly tailormade for this music, and he kind of inherited the Mahler tradition through the Concertgebouw's past, but I think he has acquitted himself very good, all things considered.

Kind regards, Shawn

[barryguerrero]

All very good points. I saw Haitink/RCOoA give a great M7 in Davies Hall (S.F.) in the early 1980's. The Philips studio recording that came out right around then - Haitink's second one - has almost none of the intensity of the live performance. Then I picked up the HDTT issue of a live Haitink/RCOoA M7 from around the same time as the live performance I saw. It's fantastic - it's very much like what I heard in Davies Hall   .   .   .  .   Some might consider it flaccid, but I like Haitink's first M6 quite a bit as well.