Author Topic: Mahler love among heavy metal fans! (Read 17746 times)

bluesbreaker · « **on:** August 26, 2007, 06:16:52 AM »

Yep folks, you read it right. Many hard rock/metal fans also dig classical music, especially "heavy classical" such as Mahler & Wagner. Check this link:

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1683776

That's the Mike Portnoy Forum. Mike POrtnoy is the drumer of the progressive metal band Dream Theater.

Ivor · « **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2007, 04:53:45 PM »

And Brian May of Queen has just received his doctorate !! What IS the world coming to.

meanwhile I plowed thru an hour-long prog on heavy metal, (part of a UK History of Rock), somewhat thru gritted teeth. I survived. I told a 30-something woman who has pop on her car radio, and she said she hated heavy metal. Thanks very much.

Ivor

bluesbreaker · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2007, 06:53:43 AM »

That means that many classical snobs should understand that many folks who are into metal or hard rock can be just as smart.

Ivor · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2007, 03:24:21 PM »

bb, can you say what a 'classical snob' is? Just so I'll know if I am one or not.

And just to reveal my hand, I think snobbery and elitism exist elsewhere, it's just that they go by other names -- celebrity, power couple, movers-and-shakers, A list, premiership (UK football reference), posh, exclusive, limited edition and so forth. That way, classical buffs can have everyone's denied snobbery/elitism dumped on them. In psychology, that's called 'projection'.

Ivor

bluesbreaker · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2007, 01:43:28 AM »

Hey Ivor,
Classical snob means the people who think classical music (western mainly) to be superior to any other non-classical music out there, and they think they are more intellectual and smarter than people who arent listening classical music.
Disclaimer: I didin't mean anyone in this forum!
Sure, there are elitism everywhere, but the "classical elitism" attitude is very prominent where I live, and that makes me sick.
I like Mahler and classical music in general because I like it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ivor · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2007, 06:57:08 PM »

Hi Mike,

On your point about the 'superiority' claims for classical, I go to a music talkboard where there are frequent threads of the 'The best album/song/guitarist'- type are common.

Someone made a comment about classical not being the summit of Western Civilisation (their phrase). So I started a discussion asking what people regarded as the very best that has been done in music in Western Civilisation. I fully expected lists full of Presley, Queen, Dylan, Rolling Stones and don'y know who else.

Imagine my surprise when people didn't want to engage, instead questioning the basis of the idea - whaddya mean 'great' ?, 'it's all a matter of taste' etc., and despite all the aforementioned invitations to list this that or the other 'best's not having been through the same mill.

i still can't understand what was 'wrong' with my discussion starter.

Ivor

bluesbreaker · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2007, 08:36:23 AM »

Quote from: Ivor on August 29, 2007, 06:57:08 PM

Hi Mike,.................i still can't understand what was 'wrong' with my discussion starter.

Ivor

Sorry Ivor, I don't understand what you mean here.
And,.........I am not Mike Portnoy.

BB

sperlsco · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2007, 03:30:31 PM »

Just to follow up on the original post, I've only been listening to classical music for the last 7 or so years. Prior to that I enjoyed most other genres of music including classic rock, americana, country, jazz. Although I can't say that I've been much of a heavy metal fan since my high school and college days (20 years ago), the "bigness" of Mahler was my initial attraction, followed shortly by my enjoying the complexity of the music. I have always been a fan of earlier Genesis and Yes, so I can also see the Prog Rock connection. I'm not quite certain where my life-long love of Herb Alpert's music fits into this equation.

Scott

Ivor · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2007, 08:21:27 PM »

Sorry about that, bb - another senior moment.

OK, you alluded to classical snobs making out that classical is superior to other musics.

The same sort of point was made on another online talkboard. Someone specifically said that classical music was NOT the summit of Western Civilisation, meaning to imply 'as so many musical snobs appear to think.'

That same talkboard also regularly has lists of the greatest band ever, greatest bass guitarist, best ever singer, best group of the 80s, lists like those.

So I tried to start a discussion asking posters what they thought was the best that had been done in music in Western Civilization. Rather than getting lists from lots of people , instead people took a line that never was taken when discussing 'best' lists of the type I've just mentioned. Rather than just offering suggestions, those who responded objected to, or questioned the basis of my discussion-starter. They'd say things like, "It's all a matter of taste", or "What do you mean 'Western Civilisation'? and so on.

I still don't know why they couldn't just give examples of what they thought was the best that The West has done in music in the last coupla 1000 years.

If that's not clear, bb, I'll have another go. can you (or anyone) say what you're (they're) getting. Ta.

Ivor

bluesbreaker · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2007, 05:46:19 AM »

Hi Ivor,
Now I see your point. Acutally if someone likes a specific kind of music then fine. But to say that what he likes is the zenith of some civilization is too much. I never say or think like that and never will be. I just like what I like. Although some people don't think that way.

By the way, here is another killer MAhler thread opened in Mike POrtnoy's forum, this time the run-down of the symphonies. It's getting better and better. I urge you guys to register and post something there. That would be real fun

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=855339

Ivor · « **Reply #10 on:** September 01, 2007, 09:14:45 AM »

Hi bb,

Thanks for that and you're also providing a kind of response that's puzzling me.

When I wonder what people think is the best that has been done in music, I don't mean 'what type of music?' As a british tv ad has it, it does what it says on the tin. Whereas you, too, have questioned the question.

people seem to answer 'Who were the 20 greatest singers?', 'What were the 50 greatest films?', 'The 25 greatest novels?' straight off, without querying the ask. They even seem to assume that tose questions must be implying 'ever'.

i'd appreciate anyone who can help over all this. Ta.

Ivor

Jot N. Tittle · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2007, 06:33:51 PM »

Quote from: Ivor on September 01, 2007, 09:14:45 AM

i'd appreciate anyone who can help over all this.
Ivor

Could it be that the very expression "Western Civilization" is considered an oxymoron by the current guardians of thought?

. & '

Ivor · « **Reply #12 on:** September 03, 2007, 09:20:33 PM »

Maybe, Jot, but I'm beat as to why that might really mean intelligent people couldn't 'get' the question.

I think something else is going on.

Ivor

Cristian · « **Reply #13 on:** September 04, 2007, 04:51:56 AM »

hehe!

I used to listen to many heavy metal bands about 15 years ago and ¿guess what? Dream Theater (where Mike Portnoy plays the drums) is the only of these bands I listen regularly today.

An appeal with Mahler for any heavy metal fan is undestandable, since they can find all the bombast, power and intensity they want in his music. But Dream theater fans aren't exactly "average" heavy metal fans. DT is an extremely technical band of amazingly skilled musicians who play long and complex songs with odd time signatures, jazz influences and such... It doesn't surprise me at all that there are many DT fans that also like not only classical music in general or Mahler in particular, but also fusion jazz, or any other complex or experimental genre.

Just last Friday I went with a friend of mine who loves Dream Theater to a performance of Le Sacre (incidentally, Thomas Hampson performed some Mahler songs too in the same concert with the GM Youth Orchestra) and, not to my surprise, he LOVED the work.

For those interested: here are some links:

Mike playing the quite stravinskian "Dance of Eternity":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0pTk1ShknE

IMO, DTs greatest records:
"Images and words": http://www.amazon.com/Images-Words-Dream-Theater/dp/B000002JPA/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/103-3589986-6446213?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188879552&sr=8-4

And "Scenes from a Memory": http://www.amazon.com/Metropolis-Part-2-Scenes-Memory/dp/B000021XS0/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5/103-3589986-6446213?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188879552&sr=8-5

bluesbreaker · « **Reply #14 on:** September 05, 2007, 05:02:23 AM »

@ Ivor,
I think the "best thing that has been done" for Western music can be extremely hard to answer. I, for one, don't think that anyone can state objectively that which is the best thing ever done, but many "great things" instead. After all, music is subjective, and you cannot measure each event like you do in math and other science fields. Well I hope I am answering your question.

@Cristian:
Haha, welcome bro! You are so right! Many Dream Theater fans are actually intelllectual as well! In fact average heavy metal fans don't really get Dream Theater. And their current keyboardist Jordan Rudess is actually a Julliard-graduated pianist!
Scenes of Memory: best album along side with Image and Words? Hmmm.........thats quite hard to say.

There's another band of this style that I like a lot: Austria's Edenbridge.
http://www.edenbridge.org

If dream Theater is Stravinsky, then Edenbridge is surely Brahms. This band has a very distinctive Austro-Germanic sound.

gustavmahlerboard.com

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