Question on DVD-A disc & Rattle/BPO/EMI M10th

[John Kim]

For example, Rattle/BPO/EMI M10 is available in this format. Can I play it on a regular DVD player? Or do I need DVD-A player? I am confused...

How does this sound compared to same recording on regular CD?

The more I listen to this performance the more I am bowled over by it.

John,

[barry guerrero]

John,

I don't own the DVD-A of the Rattle/BPO M10. However, I can tell you that the standard DVD issue of his M8 (no video to go along with the sound) sounds much better than the redbook CD. I also own the box that contains both a regular DVD of Rattle/BPO doing M5, plus a DVD-A issue of the same recording. I don't remember the DVD-A sounding that much better than the redbook CD - which really didn't sound very good - or much different than the regular DVD that came in the same box. So, I'm guessing that the DVD-A of Rattle's BPO M10 would sound better, but maybe not hugely so. And YES, you do have to own a player that is capable of playing back DVD-A's. I really like them.

Barry

[Eric Nagamine]

For example, Rattle/BPO/EMI M10 is available in this format. Can I play it on a regular DVD player? Or do I need DVD-A player? I am confused...

How does this sound compared to same recording on regular CD?

The more I listen to this performance the more I am bowled over by it.

John,

Most DVD-A's will play on a standard DVD player usually in a multi-channel sound.  However, you need DVD-A capability to get the 96/24 DVD-A play back sound.

The DVD-A that came with Rattle's Berlin M5 was stunning when played back on a DVD-A capable player. It really improved the sound so much that the performance was that much more enjoyable. No difference on a 2 channel regular DVD player though.

Eric

[barry guerrero]

Thanks Eric,

I don't remember the difference being that huge for me. But, as I think about it now, perhaps I just barely sampled the DVD-A disc. My Pansonic player does have DVD-A circuitry.

Barry

[John Kim]

Hi Eric,

"Most DVD-A's will play on a standard DVD player usually in a multi-channel sound.  However, you need DVD-A capability to get the 96/24 DVD-A play back sound."

Does it mean I can play Rattle/BPO Mahler DVD-A recordings on my standard DVD player and have them sound on my regular 2 channel stereo systems? But the sound won't improve that much compared to CD versions? Or, the regular DVD player will play them but there will be NO sound coming into the stereo system? I don't have 5 channels system yet.

Thanks.

John,

[Damfino]

I own several DVD-A recordings.  One of my players is equipped for DVD-A audio, but I tend to prefer to play the discs in Dolby digital 5.1 or DTS if it is offered.  However, I only play them in 5.1 sound.  I cannot say whether or not you would get a great improvement if you played a DVD-A on a regular DVD player in only 2.0 sound.  If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say no. 

I imagine it would be like listening to a Dolby Digital 5.1 movie in 2.0 sound.  When I first bought a DVD player, I only had a Dolby Pro-Logic receiver.  I had 5 speakers and a subwoofer, but the receiver was only capable of 2.0 surround sound.  I thought that sounded pretty good until I upgraded to a receiver that could decode Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS.  After the upgrade, it was as if I had a new DVD collection.  Not only were all the channels more discrete and the surround effects more aggressive, but the over-all sound had more presence.

On several threads, I have written favorably of the sound on the DVD-A Mahler 2nd by Zubin Mehta.  With 5.1 sound, all the separate parts that make up the finale come though loud AND CLEAR.  The organ in that recording is the best ever, IMO.  Upgrading to 5.1 sound is a good thing for a Mahlerphile.  You will be able to listen to DVD-As in Dolby Digital.  And some DVD videos contain stunning sound as well.  The Mahler DVD videos by Haitink and Abbado all feature both Dolby Digital and DTS, and sound great, IMO (though neither of their 2nds has quite the organ of the Mehta DVD audio). 

It is too bad there are not more DVD-As made.  I guess SACD appealed to more people because the discs are hybrids, and you can play the normal CD track even witout the SACD player.  However, I would recommend upgrading to decent 5.1 sound before jumping into a format like DVD-A or SACD.  My sound system is not expensive, but most people who hear something in 5.1 on it are usually impressed.

BTW, another great-sounding DVD-A is Mehta's Carmina Burana.  I first played it on my DVD-A capable player, and was quite unimpressed.  The recording had a sort of muffled sound (which was surprising, as the Mahler 2nd had sounded good in DVD-A or Dolby Digital).l  I was going to sell it for a couple of bucks at Half Price Books.  Then, I played it in my best DVD video player in Dolby Digital, and it really kicked butt.  However, when you select that option on certain DVD-A discs, you lose some special features.  On the Mahler 2nd and Carmina Burana recordings by Mehta, I could no longer access the texts to the music.  But, I could live with that.

[John Kim]

"My sound system is not expensive, but most people who hear something in 5.1 on it are usually impressed."

May I ask what kind of the 5.1 and DTS sound system you own?

John,

[sperlsco]

John:

Most discs that are properly defined as DVD-A discs have two physical layers to the disc -  a DVD-A layer that is accessible only on a DVD-A player, and a DVD-V layer that is playable on ANY DVD player.  The Rattle/BPO M10 DVD-A disc has the following mixes available on it two different physical layers: 

1) a DVD-A layer that contains both high-resolution (lossless) 5.1 and stereo.  This layer requires a DVD-A player. 
2) a DVD-V layer that contains a dolby digital 5.1 version (lossy/compressed) and also a high-resolution 24 bit stereo layer (I believe lossless 24/48).  This layer is playable in any DVD player. 

So you can safely purchase this disc for your system whether you have stereo or surround sound.  OTOH, many DVD-A discs do not carry a high resolution stereo version on the DVD-V layer of the disc (i.e. they only contain lossy DD or DTS surround mixes).  In such instances (assuming you have a stereo system and DVD-V player), you would be forced to listen to some sort of a stereo mix-down of the Dolby Digital 5.1 version -- in other words, a mix-down of a lossy/compressed mix. 

As for the Rattle M8, EMI released an audio-only DVD-V disc (i.e. playable on any DVD player) that contained surround sound (lossy DD and DTS 5.1) and PCM stereo (lossless) mixes.  When I say the disc is "audio-only", that means that there is not video to accompany the performance.  I believe that there is a video interview, though.

[John Kim]

Scott,

Thanks for your clarifications.

"The Rattle/BPO M10 DVD-A disc has the following mixes available on it two different physical layers: 

1) a DVD-A layer that contains both high-resolution (lossless) 5.1 and stereo.  This layer requires a DVD-A player. 
2) a DVD-V layer that contains a dolby digital 5.1 version (lossy/compressed) and also a high-resolution 24 bit stereo layer (I believe lossless 24/48).  This layer is playable in any DVD player.  "

So, how does the Rattle/BPO/EMI M10 DVD-A sound on 2) on a regular DVD player?

John,

[barry guerrero]

John,

Finding a DVD player that plays DVD-A shouldn't be too difficult to do. However, they're not going to be super cheap. But you'll notice an immediate improvement in sound. I have a Panasonic player - it's a five disc changer - that I picked up off of a bargain table at a Curcuit City here. It's a great unit.

Barry

[Damfino]

May I ask what kind of the 5.1 and DTS sound system you own?

It's pretty cheapass.  I have a Radio Shack Optimus subwoofer/satellite speakers (I don't think they even use the Optimus brand anymore) that I've had for 12 or so years.  I also have two cheap little Radio Shack speakers for the two rear surround.  I've had those little metal-encased speakers for over twenty years, and they attach to the wall behind me with brackets.  Not a whole lot goes on in the surrounds.  With music, a greater sense of ambience. With movies, effects like arrows flying over head, etc.  The rear speakers do not pull a lot of power for surround effects, so nothing big is needed.  My center speaker is a Klipsch 3-way speaker that is intended for use in a center channel. 

I use an Onkyo TXSR 500 receiver.  My digital audio sources connect via optical or coaxial cable.  So, I can run two DVD players with Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 sound, and my HD broadcasts on Dish Network in Dobly Digital 5.1 sound.  My upconverting Sony DVD player conncects to my Mitsubishi 16:9 DLP set via the HDMI cable.  I also have some old laserdics with DTS and Dolby Digital sound that still sound great.

So, how does the Rattle/BPO/EMI M10 DVD-A sound on 2) on a regular DVD player?

I do not have the disc, but I expect it would sound pretty good on my system.  The point I was making is that you must have a receiver capable of decoding what is on the disc.  If you listen to a mixdown of the 5.1 channels, i think I will sound much like a CD.  Or like a movie with a great soundtrack mixed down to 2.0 sound.  I only mentioned my system as something anyone could put together for fairly little money.  By getting a few good components, you will find that the work in making it all sound done is on the disc, and you only have to decode it.  My receiver was quite decent in its day, as was the center speaker.   The rest is adequate, but gets the job done in union with the other parts.

I'd stay away from those little "surround sound in a box" units, which have weak and tinny sound.  Unless you can get a cheap DVD-A player, i would not bother looking for one of those either, as the offering for DVD-A are very small.

[sperlsco]

So, how does the Rattle/BPO/EMI M10 DVD-A sound on 2) on a regular DVD player?

I don't remember.  I listened to the DVD-A's high-resolution surround mix the last few times.  I'm certain that I have listened to both the PCM stereo and the DD 5.1 versions in the past (before I owned a DVD-A player), though, and had no complaints.  I do not own the CD version.