Mahler in the composer league table

[Ivor]

  I began a discussion on a music talkboard, heading it Premiership of Composers (a UK football reference), and inviting people to muse out loud on their personal pantheons.

  The soccer metaphor took off, and one of the number has been keeping score.
 
   So far , our hero is in the top group, so, to continue the parlance, is heading for a European football competition place by the end of the season.   


   Shame we don't currently have a 'Cheering' or 'Excited' smiley. So you see where I am, sorry, where I'm at and everything.



      Ivor

[Jot N. Tittle]

What is it--sad?--that we have to use sports metaphors to draw people into discussion of the arts (and politics)?

I may be just an old fuddy-duddy, but in my time, the jocks all had collar sizes that exceeded their hat sizes and their IQs. One can find admirable exceptions to this measure, but they ARE exceptions after all. One of my everlasting blind spots has been understanding the honors (to say nothing of the salaries) given to sports figures.

Who is missing more in the long run? I, in not appreciating the thrill of athletic contests and skill (the Olympics excepted)? Or someone who does not appreciate the thrill of serious music? I'll take my chances with the music.

     . & '
     fuddy-duddy

[Ivor]

  Altho' ir was useful bait, and some of the analogies have been quite funny, the discussion has nevertheless been stimulating, and musical, and some choices and lack of them  a little surprising. Tchaikovsky not doing well, English composers in there just, Messiaen and Shostakovich banging them in (sorry) etc.

    Ivor

[Jot N. Tittle]

Good news such as you provide, Ivor, is always welcome.

Gratefully,
     . & '

[Ivor]

  More good news. One of the posters has done an early-season league table, and Gus baby is second only to Ludwig-choochkala.

  Less good is that someone has their table since, and GM isn't even in the to 20 - can you Adam-and-Eve it?

  Still, oi such such exercises lead to fresh thinking, more listening and a lively debate, that's great.

  The current top 10 in reverse order is:-
   Britten
   Bruckner
   Wagner
   Verdi
   Mozart
   Shostakovich
   Schubert
   Bach
   Mahler
   Beethoven


    Ivor

[Ivor]

  Not such good news.
 
  Our IT specialist has produced a fresh table based on recent postings.

  Now the top ten, again in reverse order is:-

     Wagner
     Verdi
     Britten
     Tchaikovsky
     Mozart
     Schubert
     Mahler
     Shostakovich
     Bach
     Beethoven

   It is only a tiny sample, and many who use the Guardian unlimited talkboards and who like art music, haven't posted their opinions. It's just that, like here, it's enjoyable for nerds like me.

  A few years ago , I made my own list whixh , after the first 23 or so, I had to start grouping. Something the compiling taught me was just how many composers I know by name and have heard so little by; and don't know the works I have heard particularly  well.

  i think this is all because when I started out with classical music, i had a book to hand that covered the field. So, from the start, I was aware to a degree of what there was to listen to. It was The Musical Companion ed. by Bacharach, 1st published in the 30s, often reprinted; a New M.C. was published in the 70s. The great thing about is that whatever you listen to, apart from the last 30-40 years, the book was quite likely to refer to.


    Ivor

[Ivor]

  That last post makes more sense if you add "it to the last sentence.


   Any other nerds here with their top 3/6/8/12/20 (premiership number) composers.

   No pressure obviously.


   Ivor

[Jot N. Tittle]

Okay, Ivor. Impromptu, without dwelling on the matter much, here is my current list of composers whose music I tend to listen to, from more to less frequently:

    Mahler
    Schubert
    Beethoven
    Dvorak
    Haydn
    Brahms
    Berlioz
    Chopin
    Liszt
    Shostakovich
    Mozart
    Wagner
    Strauss

Except for Der Mahler, subject to revision.

How do conductors and performers rate?

     . & '

[Ivor]

  Jot, thank you so much for your list.

  we have things in common.  your top 4 are in my top 6 - the others are Bruckner and Mozart.


  I tend to want to emphasise the composers, so I poss. have fewer performer favourites and don't contribute much to the performer/ance threads.

  I'll return the favour.

  My top conductors, in approx. desc. order :-

   Furtwangler, Horenstein. Toscanini, Abbado, Klemperer. Honourable mentions without specific placing - Mitropoulos, E.Kleiber , Haitink, Fried, Kondrashin,  Zinman, Reiner, Stokowski.

   Top  Performers  in no order :-

   Argerich, Cherkassky, Hamelin, Heifetz, Rostropovich,  Casals, Schnabel, Ogden, Richter, Horowirz, Baker, Grummer,  Chaliapin, MacGregor, du Pre (pretty original list)


   There are many more breath-taking performers.

     Ivor

[Ivor]

  From conducrors, forgot Cantelli.

[Jot N. Tittle]

Well done, Ivor.

As I try to compile a list of conductors, I see it as quite a complicated matter. They are all over the place for me when I consider their treatments of various composers and works.

For Beethoven and Schubert, my top conductor is probably Furtwängler--maybe with Bruckner too, but I don't listen to him all that much.

Likewise for performers. For Schubert and Mozart piano performances, it's Malcolm Bilson.

For Der Hirt auf dem Felsen it's Arlene Auger.

And so on and so on.

Then there is Mahler. Ach! Es ist gar nicht so leicht.

I'll have to ponder more on this.

     . & '

[Ivor]

   Yes, i didn't think about what the performers played, jus which ones do it for me - er - ahem - - period  (do you type a full stop ,I mean period, after saying period)  .?

   Once it's on to playing who and playing what, we're on the slippery slope to ecstasy aka nerdishness.  %-)

   Jot, if and only if, you're up to it, you could post your table at talk.guardian.co.uk, in the Music folder, premiership of composers' thread.   No pressure or anything.

  if everybody does it, we'll win hands down, and i suppose I'll owe everybody summat.



    Ivor

[michaelw]

Hi,

It's a bit like in High Fidelity by Nick Hornby. I can only set up a list if it comes to the question: what if you cannot listen to anything else for a long time...

Beethoven
Mozart
Mahler
Bach
Bartok
Stravinsky
Prokofiev
Wagner
Shostakovich
Berlioz


I have set up this list before checking out the other posts, but the result turns out not to be very original...
Restricted to orchestral music Mahler would be clearly on top, of course.

Michael

[Ivor]

   Hi michaelw, the wording I used to start the thread was, "Do you have, or have you wondered, who's in your personal pantheon of composers?"

   i did it myself a few years ago, having to start grouping composers beyong about no.23

   So enlightening (and fun) to discover how many composers I've heard of, and know all to little of the music of.

   And the first time, the canon rather 'infected' it, so i did it again, making it personal and independant. I'm nearly there, and will do it again in a little while, having heard more.



      Ivor

[Jot N. Tittle]

  Jot, if and only if, you're up to it, you could post your table at talk.guardian.co.uk, in the Music folder, premiership of composers' thread.      Ivor

Be  happy to do it, Ivor. Now give me a little direction here. "talk.guardian.co.uk" doesn't look like a web site. Or is i t embedded within a web site?

     . & '