Rattle M9 at Carnagie

[Leo K]

Found some well written reviews here:

http://www.classicalmusicguide.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=58fb700da9547fac12385cdcb0c2a3ac

Here is an excerpt:

In the last few weeks I have heard the Concertgebouw in their home hall in Amsterdam, the St Petersburg and Bergen orchestras in Carnegie and last week the CSO in Chicago. Now the mighty BPO under Rattle.

Well, there are tennis players - and there's Roger Federer. The Berlin Philharmonic reminded me last evening that they and they alone play at this exalted level and with the kind of deep-throated sonority that is unique to them. The orchestra is indeed in a class of its own and the string section is the 8th wonder of the musical world.

As Barry noted, the individual contributions were all of the highest order - first horn is easily the finest player I've ever heard in that seat in any orchestra (this includes Tuckwell, Alan Civil and Dale Clevenger among many others) - one might call him the Bud Herseth of first horns. His playing two years ago at Carnegie in Heldenleben was of a glorious splendour and he repeated that last night. I disagree with Barry about the strings and the comparison to Abbado's performance some years back, which I also attended. This string section has to be heard to be believed, it's easily 20% louder than any other on the planet and with a precision of intonation that is breathtaking. Rattle seated the firsts and seconds on either side, revealing great clarity and providing us the opportunity to note that the seconds have just as much weight of tone as their counterparts to his left. Hearing them dig in at the beginning of the second movement was viscerally thrilling. Is this as glorious a sound as under Abbado - yes, as under Karajan? Maybe not. But close.

By now we are used to Rattle's "exposed sinews" approach to Mahler (very much in the manner of Bernstein and Tennstedt). Conducting without a score, Mahler's relentless counterpoint was brought into crystalline detail in the first movement (it sounded much as Barbirolli's recording of the work with the same orchestra). When one hears this score played with such extraordinary poise and precision, it's perhaps easy to be seduced into believing that it is "familiar" music, but it remains a fiendishly difficult score, with many temptations to conductors to inspect the many trees without letting us see the forest. Rattle did not fall into this trap (as I have found he has in the past in works like Brahms 2 and Beethoven 6). Here we had a performance that would hold its head up well against Bernstein's 1979 BSO account, and you can't give higher praise than that.

I refer readers (all 3 of you) to my previous note on Tuberculosis at the Met. The Carnegie audience continued to disgrace the reputation of New York music lovers by hacking and coughing their way through the first movement. Rattle loves pianissimos that are actually really quiet (like Celibidache and Karajan) and felt obliged to make a short speech before the commencement of the second movement. "Mahler's music comes from silence and returns to silence, please help us by offering your silence - (holding up handerchief) - these help". Sir Simon would never have to make that speech in any other country in the world. Then again, this is a city with fans who boo their own baseball team. Need I say more?

The first part of the concert was given over to a large scale, garrulous composition by contemporary Finnish composer Magnus Lindberg. I cannot comment on its merits other than to say that it was very well played and, at 25 minutes, lasted about 10 minutes too long for its own good. Sounding like the work of so many other European contemporary composers this piece made me yearn for something by Ades (which they're doing tonight) or Taverner or Berio or someone with a distinctive voice. Sorry, didn't like it much. The composer had trouble finding his way onstage at the end, but was warmly applauded and clearly delighted with the performance.

This description sounds very much like the commercial release on EMI (except the coughing!). 


--Leo

[John Kim]

Leo,

I've been listening to this recording, about 20 min. into the first movt. Based on the part I listened to, this may well be Rattle's best outing on Mahler and easily rank with his magnificent M10th with the same orchestra. It seems that Rattle's has matured significantly over the years and now is fully seasoned. It is beautiful, highly refined but also very ferocious taking risks here and there. The whole performance feels like "When Lenny meets Dohnanyi"! Yes, the strong and heady timpani, I like that very much. More report when I finish the listening.

One more thing. This recording is nothing like the radio broadcast we all heard. It is more sharply focused, there is more contrasts, and the playing is better. Better recording sound as well.

John,

[Leo K]

Leo,

I've been listening to this recording, about 20 min. into the first movt. Based on the part I listened to, this may well be Rattle's best outing on Mahler and easily rank with his magnificent M10th with the same orchestra. It seems that Rattle's has matured significantly over the years and now is fully seasoned. It is beautiful, highly refined but also very ferocious taking risks here and there. The whole performance feels like "When Lenny meets Dohnanyi"! Yes, the strong and heady timpani, I like that very much. More report when I finish the listening.

One more thing. This recording is nothing like the radio broadcast we all heard. It is more sharply focused, there is more contrasts, and the playing is better. Better recording sound as well.

John,

 

John, I'm very happy to hear this report!  I'm currently on my third listen and my first positive thoughts are confirmed.  I agree this is a new era for Rattle...I agree he has seasoned for the better.  Listening to his M10 from Nov 9th is more proof of this.  I look forward to you full report.

--Leo

[John Kim]

Absolutely stunning! The middle two movts are oustanding, the finale just as resplendent as in Karajan's live recording. I liked the lively and vigorous Landler where the orchestral execution is nothing short of brilliant. I would have liked a touch more of the wilderness, a sense of going out of control in Rondo Burleske but this is a small quibble in an otherwise completely satisfying performance. The Finale starts off at a rather low energy level but it slowly picks up the heat and by the time the coda arrives the Berlin strings beat all others in the world with perfect control and extraordinary skill to sustain the long lines right up to the last note.

Overall, Rattle interpretation will not impress the listener as far too off the main stream readings. But coupled with the brilliant playing and a keen sense of structure, balance, and above all, that added feeling of ferocity and extremity, this new recording will proudly hold itself amongst the greatest M9th ever recorded - Bernstein, Levine, Ozawa, and Neumann.

I will return to this again and again.

John,

[Leo K]

John, as you already know, I agree with every word you wrote. 

The Finale is really something to hear, the playing is beyond dreams...I hope many others will seek out this recording and hear how the BPO play Rattle's vision...so heartbreaking, so passionate...uplifting.  The BPO simply play the hell out of this symphony.

Here is what I wrote to John previously:

I 'm sure this will be near or at the top of my favorite M9's, it is that good.  Very reminscent of Lenny and Ozawa, expansive but never dragging, this Rattle has sophisticated execution to bring out many shades of emotion and moods.  There are passages executed that bring about a new look at aspects of the score.  The horns are particularly well heard thoughout, and I hear counterpoint and inner voicings I usually miss (Rattle understands the important role of the horns in the M9).  Since the sound is one of the best I've heard for the M9 (and this is not even the CD yet), and the BPO are astounding players, this may be a good first choice M9.  This is miles ahead of the broadcast we heard, which was "softer" in impact.  This new recording is musicular and at times even more terrifiying than Barenboim or Horenstein.  The third big climax in the first movement is like a Tsunami...not over exaggerated but sounding deep, stretched and allowed to spread, like a wave rising and travelling over land for miles...the timpani that thunder after this climax are shattering...I was so happy to hear this done right.  It is interesting to hear Rattle's concept develop, and great to hear how better his vision is accomplished this time around.

The detailed execution of the Landler brought out dark textures and urban-like sophistication to complicate the country landscape. I was more than impressed with the last two movements...especially the Rondo with the detail in the recording, and the Adagio reminds me of Lenny's RCO but with pristine sound...in all the movements the strings, from basses to violins are captured in all their textured richness.  Listening to the Adagio was breathtaking, and felt like the first time I heard Lenny's live 1979 BPO.  The counterpoint in the Rondo is illuminating because the various instruments are so well heard.  There are no strange tempo indulgences in the whole work, rather Rattle's conception coincides with Mahler in spirit, therefore his interpetative choices make emotional and musical sense for the whole Symphony.  Rattle's conception may not be totally unique, but his interpetation is perhaps a further refinement of Lenny, Ozawa, Chailly and even Horenstein among others who share a more expanded view of this work.  And Rattle also sheds light on passages that I haven't appreciated before.  The final result is fulfilling, heartbreaking and serene.  Every movement is satisfying and I would bet the details will bring much pleasure with repeated hearings.

--Leo


 

[je-b]

I can really confirm what you said about the beginning of a "new era" for Rattle (and in his partnership with the BPO), Leo and John. Here in Berlin, where people and the press in particular tended to be extremely critical of him following the the by now legendary last three years of Abbado's leadership, there's currently a shift going on concerning the public opinion of his work. He gave a concert during this year's Berlin Music Festival (which also had performances of the BSO, the Philharmonia Orchestra, the Dresden Staatskapelle, the SFSO, the Concertgebouw, and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, amongst others) of Debussy's "Martyr de Saint Sebastian", Strawinsky's "Le Roi des Etoiles", and Sibelius' 5th Symphony which made people go crazy and the press proclaim that the partnership between him and the BPO hat finally begun (after five years, that is). Since then, most of the recent reviews have been extremely positive, to say the least. Rattle's ability to form transitions very elegantly and fluently and his by now extremely well-developed sense for orchestral colors become more and more compelling. Just listen to that marvellous long "coda" section of the M9 first movement after the huge climax on the commercial recording: rarely has there been so much room for every contributing voice to sing and breathe. I really love that. It's a wonderful recording in general, but that has already been mentioned...    

[barry guerrero]

Well great, just what we need: yet another great BPO Mahler 9th. That's like trying to get the Vienna Phil. to do a great job with Beethoven; it takes little or no effort. I'll be impressed when Rattle gets the BPO to REALLY play the 8th symphony; and gets them to like it too. Then we'll be talking about great tranformations. For the mean time, Berlin's two other orchestras blow the pants off the BPO when it comes to the 8th, and some of the other ones too.

Barry

[Leo K]

Well great, just what we need: yet another great BPO Mahler 9th. That's like trying to get the Vienna Phil. to do a great job with Beethoven; it takes little or no effort. I'll be impressed when Rattle gets the BPO to REALLY play the 8th symphony; and gets them to like it too. Then we'll be talking about great tranformations. For the mean time, Berlin's two other orchestras blow the pants off the BPO when it comes to the 8th, and some of the other ones too.

Barry

Actually, this is exactly what I needed this year...it's an early christmas present from a great orchestra...the more BPO M9's the better.  The gift that keeps on giving.   

That said, my Boulez M8 arrived today and I'm excited about this too!

--Leo   

[stillivor]

  Had to pop something in to say, 3000 up !!!! 

  Also CarnEgie, and also still hoping for response to my admin. query.

   But mostly 3000 posts.

  Ivor

[Leo K]

I can really confirm what you said about the beginning of a "new era" for Rattle (and in his partnership with the BPO), Leo and John. Here in Berlin, where people and the press in particular tended to be extremely critical of him following the the by now legendary last three years of Abbado's leadership, there's currently a shift going on concerning the public opinion of his work. He gave a concert during this year's Berlin Music Festival (which also had performances of the BSO, the Philharmonia Orchestra, the Dresden Staatskapelle, the SFSO, the Concertgebouw, and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, amongst others) of Debussy's "Martyr de Saint Sebastian", Strawinsky's "Le Roi des Etoiles", and Sibelius' 5th Symphony which made people go crazy and the press proclaim that the partnership between him and the BPO hat finally begun (after five years, that is). Since then, most of the recent reviews have been extremely positive, to say the least. Rattle's ability to form transitions very elegantly and fluently and his by now extremely well-developed sense for orchestral colors become more and more compelling. Just listen to that marvellous long "coda" section of the M9 first movement after the huge climax on the commercial recording: rarely has there been so much room for every contributing voice to sing and breathe. I really love that. It's a wonderful recording in general, but that has already been mentioned...    

Thanks je-b, it's great to hear from someone actually there in Berlin...have you heard Rattle's recent BPO M10 from Nov 9?  It's marvelous and quite expansive.

Symphony  No. 10 (vs. Cooke)

with
CHRISTIAN JOST
Heart of Darkness

Karl-Heinz Steffens, clarinete
 
Berliner Philharmoniker
Simon Rattle
Berliner Philharmonie, Nov.9 2007.

Philharmonie(Großer Saal) Herbert-von-Karajan-Straß e 1
Berlin-Tiergarten, Berlin

http://rapidshare.com/files/68698019/BPO091107.zip.001
http://rapidshare.com/files/68701866/BPO091107.zip.002
http://rapidshare.com/files/68706214/BPO091107.zip.003

(use HJ Spilt to join files)


--Leo

[Amphissa]

I have not heard this recording yet. The 9th is among my favorite Mahler symphonies, so I'm always curious about new releases. However, I am typically skeptical of Rattle, because I've been consistently disappointed in the past.

Reviews of this performance have been mostly positive, but not universally so, and I'm glad to have some details regarding particulars in the performance.

Just for continuing the discussion, here is an alternative perspective:

http://listserv.uh.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0711c&L=mahler-list&T=0&P=4800

I guess I'll just have to listen to this myself.

[Leo K]

Regarding Erik's review:

First of all, his main complaint appears to be on sound.  Remember this sound file on iTunes is not full CD quality, we will have to wait till the actual CD comes out for that.  That said, the sound is actually very fine and I have to disagree with his criticism regarding dymanics and clarity in the recording.  On my headphones (grado SR80's) I heard everything in good detail, including the trumpets.  Also the climaxes are captured very well...fine detail such as the detail of the woodwinds among other instruments add nice color overall.  I do not hear the "murky" quality Erik hears.  Indeed he is correct that the strings sound amazing, but to my ear not to the detriment of others in the orchestra.     

Erik's other issue has to do with performance.  I don't sense the beginning of II as "pondering", and tempos not vaque in light of each other. The faster "trio" section of the Rondo is reminescent of Bernstein's treatment, and I was satisfied with the pacing of the playing here, as I prefer the "dreamy" section to contrast with the later Adagio.  My favorite M9's are expansive, so I'm inclined to favor Rattle's choices of slower tempi in the phrasing.  Of course, issues on pacing are a matter of taste, but I feel strongly that the Adagio doesn't drag, and Rattle doesn't dwell on passages no more than Bernstein.  Indeed, the movement doesn't last longer than 26:05 minutes if I recall. 

--Leo

[je-b]

Thanks je-b, it's great to hear from someone actually there in Berlin...have you heard Rattle's recent BPO M10 from Nov 9?  It's marvelous and quite expansive.

Yes, I was there during one of the M10 performances this month and liked it a lot. He employed quite an interesting effect for the bass drum strokes leading into the final movement by placing the bass drum off-stage and having it played at the utmost fortissimo there, so that the sound that reached the hall was just about forte, but the intensity of tone was very nice.

[barry guerrero]

Playing the solo bass drum strokes offstage is something that I've been advocating for a very long time. I believe that John Kim suggested it years ago as well.

Barry

[John Kim]

Playing the solo bass drum strokes offstage is something that I've been advocating for a very long time. I believe that John Kim suggested it years ago as well.

Barry

Yep, I invented it!

John,