Macal/CPO/Exton M9th SACD received 99/100 in Japan

[mister bob]

I'm enjoying this thread very much; it's always very interesting when two quite separate entitites are put up against each other, almost playground style, and they then hammer it out.  Mahler 9 v. Bruckner 9... Mahler 9 v. Mahler 10...  There are other 9's out there too; anyone for Shostakovich 9?  S9 v. S10?  No contest, I think. [The Robert Simpson 9 is a fascinating work, if you don't know it.]  I attended an excellent concert last Friday, B5 performed by the Suisse Romande, conducted by Janowski, at the Bridgewater in Manchester.  Wonderful, mighty, an exploration of so many different sound worlds.  Around half-way through I had the thought that there was no way that Mahler could ever have composed the Bruckner 5, and would never even have wanted to.  B5 is an exercise in extended, delayed gratification, avenues explored, left behind, then revisited.  No parade of emotional extremes here, no light/shade or life/death opposites.  My [simple] point is this; we should be mindful of comparing these two great composers, in part based around the facts that they overlapped slightly in life, they both composed 'big' works, and they both did or did not compose 9 symphonies.  I find them so utterly different in complexion and intention that I find it hard to talk about them together.  Yes, of course, Bruckner does go for the emotional jugular at times, to stunnng effect, but the human psyche, love, death, and the sheer effort in being alive are what keeps me putting Mahler in the CD player.  So, B9 v. M9 - a non-argument for me, I love them both, for different reasons.

[Leo K]

Barry and Todd,

If you like Karajan's approach try one of the two live concerts that Karajan/BPO made around the same time as the DG recording. The playing is much better and the orchestra responded really well to Karajan's conception which is similar to what's in the DG recording. Someone who was at the concert called it (I can't recall which one it was) one of the greatest M9ths he ever heard. It's too bad that BPO was not particularly in top form when they were caught in this DG recording.

John,

I just finished listening to the Salzburg/August 1982 Karajan/BPO M9, and in every way (except the sonics) I find this a most extraordinary M9...I am so impressed I rate it as high as the Bernstein/BSO and RCO.  I now understand better what John was talking about.  The BPO IS more responsive here, and it makes a big difference.

First, I really like the almost perfect balance between objectivity and subjectivity that Karajan achieves...in this M9 more emotion is felt, and the second climax is perhaps even more powerful in this Salzburg concert.  The sonics are of course limited, but you can still hear the M9 score is realized with more exquisite beauty and detail than his commercial releases. Yes, like John has said, the rhythm is more defined and the timpani are amazing (and arrive on cue), but so are the low brass and woodwinds.  The woodwinds break through the texture memorably in sections of the second movement and the quieter sections of the Finale, in a way I haven't heard before, sounding more "flowery" or fragile when they appear, as if the players are really concentrating with each note.  In any case the woodwinds weren't as buried as they sometimes are in the Finale.  It's fascinating how the second movement starts with no irony, rather it sounds straight and naive...this is very effective for the building of this movement.

Second, I am a junkie for loud climaxes in the first movement, and this Salzburg concert (and his DG Gold M9) has louder climaxes than most other M9's. Ever since Barry has pointed out the low A natural in the horn during the third climax, I' am now always listening for it to show up...well it's still here in this Salzburg M9, and I think the low brass are better heard in the climaxes too, this also goes for the searing climax in the Adagio, which again is even more intense than the commercial releases, and is just as powerful as my other Bernstein favorites. 

--Todd   

[John Kim]

Todd's description of this live recording is everything I could agree with. This is arguably the best Karajan Mahler Ninth and it's shame that DG chose to release the other one instead of this concert. Karajan's grasp of the architecture is nearly perfect but he achieves this structural unity by speeding up the outer movements:

I. 27'08"
II. 16'19"
III. 12'35"
IV. 24'48"

He still does not slow down during the first zen-like passage following the great first climax, but to my surprise he does so after the second climax. This tips the whole balance of the movt. toward the second half but thereby increases the gravity and solemnity of the music. The three climaxes are stronger and louder but the ensemble never goes shaky as it did in the DG recording. Very well done. More importantly, the playing of BPO is much improved this time with an ideal balance and crisp, rhythmic (Yes!) ensemble throughout.

I am sure DG owns an official recording of this concert. If only they decide to release the materials someday....

John,

[barry guerrero]

.    .    .     then again, it doesn't have fifty billion extra tracks like the "live" DG issue does. I like to zoom in those moments of poor ensemble and shakey structural integrity. Train wrecks are fun when you know they're coming.