Author Topic: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!  (Read 8648 times)

Offline Leo K

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Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« on: January 25, 2008, 10:40:22 PM »


I discovered this yesterday and found this little known CD to hold one of the most fantastic renderings of the M3 I ever heard.  The sound quality isn't the most optimum in every case, but I could still hear details of the score I never heard on other CD's...the percussion here is simply incredible...the tam tam, snare and the timpani are better heard...(I am tempted to claim)...than any SACD's of this work, it is really a treat.  To clearly hear the tam tam makes a HUGE difference in this work...it is so important it is almost a deal breaker for me.  It is why I like Abbado/VPO or Zinman's recent account.  The brass, especially the trumpets break through with stunning clarity.  The first movment is like Abbado/VPO or Zinman's recent but even more fun, wild and loud..almost out of control.  The trombone solo is a cross between the Haitink/RCO Kerst matinee and Kobayashi Exton accounts...in other words, grand and epic but with much character in the tone and breath.  The second and third movements have slightly more character than Horenstein, with a real flow and "prickly" quality...more rough and rambunctious than usual (again, the orchestral detail is colorful and clearly heard).  The third movement uses a "posthorn" that sounds more like a muted coronet than a trumpet...I'm not sure exactly what they're using here, but it's interesting and much better than Horenstein's flugelhorn.  The oboe in the "Oh Mensch" is quirky but haunting...the slides are slowed down so the "middle" note in the slide is heard longer...quite unothodox, but yet appealing in it's rough-out-of-tune quality and sounding like a bird like no other performance I've yet heard.  The Contralo is heavy but there is no excess in vibrato...she is quite good...almost like Petra Lang but with more nuance in the phrasing.

The sound picture reminds me of the Kondrashin M7 on Tahra...as if we are seated in the middle in the hall, not too far to miss Mahler's intended "blend" that results when seated where everything can be heard correctly.  The BRSO give all they've got, which makes up for any lack of refinement heard elsewhere...the work is even all the better for the enthusiastic agression the orchestra uses.

The final two movements don't quite live up to what was heard previously, but they are not bad by any means, there is just not as many musical discoveries as the rest, but the strings are actually quite good in the Adagio...which is very slow until Rogner rushes too much towards the finish.  At least the brass has character, such as the wonderful trombones.  But still, this is a keeper!  Don't hesitate to buy if you see it in the used bin!

--Todd
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 11:12:39 PM by Leo K »

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 08:26:09 AM »
Exactly: the last movement isn't as strong as it could or should be. But at least it doesn't drag. The snare drum playing in the first movement is terrific - the best I've heard it on any recording. On the posthorn solo, Ludwig Guttler - a pretty well known trumpet soloist in Germany - uses a rotary valve trumpet with a mute. I can't say that I really like that sound, but he plays the solo really well. Yes, I very much like this Rogner M3; much more so than his M6, which isn't bad by any standard. He recorded M6 in andante/scherzo order - before it become politically correct to do so. I would definitely rate this M3 higher than a number of "big name" ones.

Another "sleeper" M3 you should try is the Armin Jordan/Orchestre de la Suisse Romande (Geneva) one. It's hard to find now, but it's worth the search because it has terrific sound. EMI issued it on some French import sub-label for a while. Since you don't mind slower performances, you should also check out the Bychkov/WDR Orch. Koln M3 on Avie. It has really disciplined playing, and great sound. It just happens to be on the slow side. Marjana Lipovsek sounds fantastic on it. It'll remind you a bit of the Maazel, but not quite as radical.

Offline Leo K

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 09:50:47 PM »
So thats how Mr.Guttler gets that strange sound...interesting, and I love how it colors this section of the movement.  Yes, this Rogner M3 is a real keeper, and a real treat at hearing how exciting the first movement must be. 

Thanks for the further recommends barry, I will seek the Jordan out.  I actually have the Bychkov from a trade, but haven't got to it yet...will check it out soon though.

Have you heard the Adrian Leaper M3 on Arte Nova?  I'm seeing this in the used store along with his M4 disk.

--Todd


Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2008, 09:22:48 AM »
I don't own it anymore, but I'm quite familiar with the Arte Nova M3. It's really very good. It's very much of the fast side, somewhat similar to the Lopez-Cobos/Cincinnati one (Telarc); and almost as quick as Salonen/LAPO. It's very well played, and reasonably well recorded. The trombone solo is quite good. The mezzo has a nice, dark, heavy voice. The most distinguishing feature is near the end of the sixth movement: the big bass drum roll that underpins the brass at the climactic section of the long brass chorale passage - right where the final cymbal crash is at. At that spot, on the vast majority of recordings, you hear almost exclusively the two timpani rolls, but not the bass drum. Lopez Cobos is good with that same detail as well. Andrian Leaper also recorded a really good M7 on Arte Nova as well. It has a terrific finale.

Offline Leo K

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2008, 05:13:33 AM »
Barry, thanks for you review of the Leaper...I just have another questen before I grab it...how loud is the tam tam on it?  Is each appearance of the tam tam well heard?


--Todd

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 07:03:10 AM »
I don't remember the tam-tamery being strikingly present, or lacking in prescence either. I think it was fair, as I recall.

B.

Offline achri-d

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2008, 09:52:15 PM »
The Rögner set is one of the finest M3's I have in my collection. I am especially fond of the contributions from Jadwiga Rappé. It seems that she has not done much Mahler - but are there other recommendable Mahler recordings where she sings? ACD.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 09:54:14 AM by achri-d »

Offline alpsman

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2008, 11:44:52 PM »
Has anyone listen to M3 with Martinon and CSO from 1966. That was the first performance of the symphony by the Chicagoans. A very fresh and exciting performance-listen to the great brass climax about 11 min. in the first movement.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2008, 12:31:15 AM »
Yes, I have a copy of the Martininon/CSO. It's actually my favorite one with the CSO. The mezzo wasn't particularly great, but that's not a deal breaker for me. The long brass chorale near the end of the finale is outstanding. That's back when all the old heavy-hitters of the CSO brass section were still in their prime. Yes, it's very good.

Barry

john haueisen

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2008, 12:43:42 AM »
I just want to second what Leo K and Barry have said:  the Rogner is exceptional.
It has some haunting moments you won't hear in other performances.
If you have a chance to buy the Rogner, it's definitely worth it.
--John H

Offline brunumb

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2008, 08:11:45 AM »
The Rogner M3 appears to have been released in a Berlin Classics budget priced series.  I ordered a copy from Newburycomics.com for $11.85 plus postage.

http://www.newburycomics.com/rel/v2_viewupc.php?storenr=103&upc=78212449322

john haueisen

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2008, 07:37:03 PM »
Thanks Brunumb.
The only copies I found earlier were used sellers at Amazon--going for $33.00 plus.

Offline achri-d

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2008, 12:11:32 AM »
The Rögner set is one of the finest M3's I have in my collection. I am especially fond of the contributions from Jadwiga Rappé. It seems that she has not done much Mahler - but are there other recommendable Mahler recordings where she sings? ACD.

Interesting to notice that nobody knows this. ACD.

john haueisen

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2008, 04:16:08 PM »
I remember that Jadwiga Rappé sings M2 with the Polish National Radio SO under Anton Wit, but I confess that I've not listened to it often enough to remember the quality of her performance.  I'll try to listen to it very soon, and will report back.  (I'm likely to like it, as I don't think I've ever met an M2 that I dislike--shame on me!)
--John H

Offline Leo K

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Re: Rogner/BRSO/Berlin Classics M3....remarkable!
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2008, 09:35:49 PM »
(I'm likely to like it, as I don't think I've ever met an M2 that I dislike--shame on me!)
--John H

I think I'm the same...for me, I always get something from every performance...some more than others!  But I usually don't hate a recording, I just visit some more than others!

-Todd

 

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