Bertini/Kolner Rundfunk/EMI M6...Incredible!

[Leo K]

Upon listening to Bertini's M6 (from EMI box) again this afternoon I want to leap for joy (I can't because I'm at work).  Although the sound isn't as great as others in the box, the production is still beautiful and the strength of the orchestra is clearly heard, with the magnificant playing providing details that kept me at the edge of my seat. 

What I really found suprising was the rightness of the tempo relationships, and the energy of the performance bar to bar...what movement!  What phrasing!  What detail!  I'm tempted to proclaim this is among the most "held together" M6's I've heard, or among the most satisfying as a whole.  At this point, I'd even put it next to my favorite Haitink/LSO broadcast from 2004.

The first two movements indeed are almost too cautious (as said in the liner notes), but the thaw begins in the 3rd movement, and by the time the finale starts the performance becomes white hot, which contrasts brilliantly with the first two movements.  This is why I am so impressed by this M6.  The first two movements are more intellectual, but still breathtaking in execution, and the last two are more emotional, (but with the construction still holding every part together).  It's like hearing an anxiety growing, or emotion coming to the surface. 

The more I listen to the performances in Bertini's EMI box, the more impressed I am with his Mahler.

--Todd

[barry guerrero]

"The more I listen to the performances in Bertini's EMI box, the more impressed I am with his Mahler".

Two words: of course!

[Leo K]

"The more I listen to the performances in Bertini's EMI box, the more impressed I am with his Mahler".

Two words: of course!

Listening to Bertini really is a revelation to me...his insights into these scores take my breath away.  The smallest gestures enhance an entire movement and create a fresh listening experience.

This Bertini Box from EMI is the best thing I ever bought from EMI.  What a bargain...what a treasure.

--Todd

[John Kim]

I didn't feel the first two movts cautious. This M6th may well be called thingking man's Mahler Sixth. Very intelligently thought out and played with restraint but with much insight. The only downside was the early digital sound which is sometimes edgy and a little harsh.

John,

[barry guerrero]

"What a bargain...what a treasure."

I know; and it's so obvious, and it gets so little press. I think it stomps a good number of other complete cycles right into the ground; which isn't to say that none have unique contributions to add to the canon - they all do. Anyway, I think of Bertini as combining the best aspects of Bernstein and Boulez. What an 8th! - it still has, by far, the most exciting yet glorious ending of any of them.

Barry

[Leo K]

"What a bargain...what a treasure."

I know; and it's so obvious, and it gets so little press. I think it stomps a good number of other complete cycles right into the ground; which isn't to say that none have unique contributions to add to the canon - they all do. Anyway, I think of Bertini as combining the best aspects of Bernstein and Boulez. What an 8th! - it still has, by far, the most exciting yet glorious ending of any of them.

Barry

Barry, I am really amazed that this box hardly gets any press...it is frustrating and sad that these recordings pretty much stay underground. 



John, I like your description of this M6, and you are right regarding the first two movements..."cautious" is not the right word.

[sperlsco]

What an 8th! - it still has, by far, the most exciting yet glorious ending of any of them.

Barry

Glorious - Yes
Exciting - I may have to vote for Segerstam and his tam-tam crescendos!

[Polarius T]

Have you guys heard his live late Mahler with the Tokyo Metropolitan SO? (Some of those are out on Jpn SACD as well btw, I think 7th through 10th/Adagio.) Just curious how those might compare as I've read some praise that piqued my interest.

PT

[barry guerrero]

I think that the Japanese ones might not be quite as cleanly played, but the difference in execution is slight. What I do like, is that the tempo are just a tad faster with the inner two movements of M6 (I'm talking about the TMSO one), as well as with the last two movements of his TMSO M7. In other words, Bertini made slight tempo adjustments that I think are for the better. However, I don't feel that his TMSO M8 quite captures the same level of grandeur or gloriousness of his Cologne one. Close, though. John Kim could tell you more about his TMSO M9 (is there one? I think there is. I've lost track).

Barry

[Polarius T]

IJohn Kim could tell you more about his TMSO M9 (is there one? I think there is. I've lost track).

There is, and I'd love to hear from John about this if he reads this and won't mind sharing.

Thx,

PT

[Leo K]

I can vouch for Bertini's TMSO M9, which John turned me onto awhile back.  All three released Bertini M9's are very special.

I quote John as saying, "The new one has great sonics and although the playing of Tokyo Metropolitan Symphony Orch. is not on a par with the German Orch. they have more guts, wider dynamic range, and are willing to take more risk. Also, the 1st. movt. is better coordinated than in the EMI recording."


--Todd

[Leo K]

Oh, and Barry...I've heard you say the Bertini/TMSO M9 sounds like a Berstein/Karajan hybrid!  Which I can agree with.

--Todd

[John Kim]

Based on my experiences with Japanese orchestras playing M9th, it seems the range of all the technical challenges and difficulties in this score is beyond their scope as of yet. Except for Asahina's breathtaking Osaka Phil. Orch. version I've never heard any Japanese orchestra not making any mistakes and being able to maintain their full lung power consistently throughout the four movements. The TMPO is, unfortunately, probably the least capable group in terms of the virtuosity and the atheletic power. Neither Wakasugi's nor Bertin's recording with this orchestra demonstrates a satisfactory level of playing usually seen in other recordings with other (better) orchestras, Japanese or foreign. So, although Bertini's concept improved, overall I must take my side with his earlier version with the German orchestra.

John,

[John Kim]

Based on my experiences with Japanese orchestras playing M9th, it seems the range of all the technical challenges and difficulties in this score is beyond their scope as of yet. Except for Asahina's breathtaking Osaka Phil. Orch. version I've never heard any Japanese orchestra not making any mistakes and being able to maintain their full lung power consistently throughout the four movements. The TMPO is, unfortunately, probably the least capable group in terms of the virtuosity and the atheletic power. Neither Wakasugi's nor Bertin's recording with this orchestra demonstrates a satisfactory level of playing usually seen in other recordings with other (better) orchestras, Japanese or foreign. So, although Bertini's concept improved, overall I must take my side with his earlier version with the German orchestra.

John,

I just want stress that I am not trying to insult Japanese or any specific orchestras, but that Mahler Ninth is a relentless work that demands highest quality ensemble with enough physical power that can carry the listeners as well as the players all the way to the end.

John,

[Polarius T]

Thanks for the info & opinion, Todd & John; all the points you two raise are relevant to my considerations.

Researching the topic a little (I've really gotten curious about Bertini), I noticed the Japanese HMV also has available three releases with him and either Wiener Symphoniker (no, not VPO; in the 5th & 9th) or Berlin Deutsches Symphonieorchester (4th & 6th), all live recordings on the Weitblick label sourced from Europe (but apparently not available there, to what I could find).

And, maybe best of all, in the opera Die Drei Pintos that Weber started and Mahler completed (to such an extent that it's basically by him in fact), with the Munich Radio orchestra. Wondering if anyone has heard that one?

PT