Top Ten

[John Kim]

Speaking of 'concept' I can't say it's clearly extractable from the Klemperer/PO/EMI recording. It is as though Klemperer was on his way of finding one when he recorded this. Some hints of his concept are there but overall I don't get what he was really trying to say. No doubt that the inadequate playing contributed to such an impression. But the VPO concert was so much more consistent in both playing and conducting that I can say the performance was shaped into a conceptual thing.

As for the Abbado/VPO/DG M9th, its is rather a shapeless performance but what a magnificent ramshackle at that! If you shut your head off and listen to the recording as it is without any preconception or bias it will sound like a spectacular masterpiece. The sound and playing of VPO tremendously help here (I know Barry will disagree with me on this). I cannot recommend it as a first choice for M9th but it is certainly an interesting, valuable alternative that everyone should hear for a change.

I also agree that Barenboim's live broadcast was better than the Warner recording. It was faster and more dynamic but the playing was more unified and disciplined. It clearly shows Barenboim was still refining his interpretation of this great work.

John,

[barry guerrero]

he sound and playing of VPO tremendously help here (I know Barry will disagree with me on this)

I don't think that the playing of the VPO is really the problem here, John. I think two other things instead. First, I feel that the sound is a bit heavy and muddy in the low strings and tuba. Second, I feel that this a performance that's good at bringing lots of small details to the fore, but isn't so great at the major climaxes in the two outer movements. In that sense, it's almost the antithesis of Karajan/BPO (live). I like that it DG put the adagio of the 10th symphony BEFORE the start of the 9th. But I also don't think that it's a particularly great performance of the M10 adagio either.

Believe me John, as with Abbado's VPO M3, I gave this recording lots of chances, simply because there IS so much small-scale ear candy in it. I even owned it twice (I paid waaaay too much money to get it again from a second hand shop in Ann Arbor, Mich.). But I just got frustrated with this performance in regards to the big picture - especially with the two major climaxes being so rushed, and sort of mis-firing. But it's certainly not terrible by any means.

Barry

[John Kim]

Karajan/BPO/DG II - "beautifully intense, intensely smooth without much bite"

Abbado/VPO/DG - "great articulation and phenomenal sound from the orchestra"

These are how I would describe the two performances. The playing by BPO is at times untidy (particularly in I.) which robs some power of the score and Karajan doesn't always elicit multiple polyphonic lines vividly enough. This latter problem existed in his M5th recording. Also, Karajan's choice of tempo bothers me in I.: the zen-like passage following the first climax hardly slows down compared to what have happened before. His first recording, OTOH, had more flexibility in the tempo. Yes, in the Abbado the first climax in I. isn't all that great because he doesn't pile up enough power and cuts it off too early to be effective. That's clearly him doing, not the recording or playing. But then it must be his decision to do so and I'd rather respect it than blame it because the following two climaxes are awesome in their sonic scope (litsen to the roaring brass and screaming woodwinds). Overall Abbado stresses local effects rather than the flow, but as you indicated before Abbado was perhaps still under the shadow of Berg at the time of this recording.

John,

[John Kim]

Speaking of Abbado's Mahler Ninth, by far the best all round version that keeps everything in a proper perspective is his 1995 Amsterdam Mahlerfest concert. It was better played - albeit one or two glitches in I. and II. - and better coordinated than the Karajan. With powerful percussion - the rolling cymbal and thundering timpani ! - and the Berlin strings beautifully stretched to their limits in the Finale, the concert was one of Abbado's glorious moments as a Mahler conductor.

John,

[sperlsco]

While there is never anything wrong with a "Top Ten" type thread, I did not expect the resulting discussion to become so rewarding to me as a reader.  It's wonderful to see such a discussion without all of the personal junk -- Thanks all! 

BTW, my top-10+ M9's are still:

Abbado/BPO/95' Mahlerfest
Ancerl/CPO/Supraphon
Bernstein/BSO/Memories (live, Tanglewood)
Bernstein/RCO/DGG
Chailly/RCO/Decca
Dohnanyi/Cleveland
Eschenbach/NDRSO (I "think" this was an NDR subscriber release, I only have a CD-R)
Inbal/Frankfurt
Inoue/NJP/Exton
Karajan/BPO (Live)
Levine/Philly
Maazel/BRSO/BRSO (DVD)
Ozawa/SKO
Segerstam/Danish NRSO
MTT/SFSO
de Waart/Netherlands PO

Scott

[John Kim]

Scott,

Actually, your list minus the Karajan is the closest to mine  .

It's interesting you included the Maazel, Segerstam, and de Waart.

Despite Maazel's radical conducting, I certainly enjoyed the playing of BRSO in the Maazel.

de Waart is pretty good too in modling the long lines in lyrical touches. Besides Lenny's old Sony recording, de Waart's may be the only other version in which the conductor is able to elicit bitter sadness and melancholy in the middle movts. I just wish the sound were better.

The Segerstam is rather heavy handed but aided by the bright, deep Chandos sound, it manages to hold its impact all the way down.

John,

[Dave H]

Scott:

Your list reminds me once again how lucky the Ninth has been on disc. In paticularly, Segerstam and Inbal are both underrated performances likely to be overlooked, even by hard-core fans. I appreciate your reminding me of them once again!

Dave H

[sperlsco]

Scott:

Your list reminds me once again how lucky the Ninth has been on disc. In paticularly, Segerstam and Inbal are both underrated performances likely to be overlooked, even by hard-core fans. I appreciate your reminding me of them once again!

Dave H

M9 and DLvdE are the two symphonies in which I have the largest number of recordings that I consider first tier favorites.  I probably have more recordings of either M1, M2, or M3, but fewer that I consider as first tier favorites (i.e. ones to which I immediately consider listening when in the mood for that particular symphony).   

[Leo K]

Scott:

Your list reminds me once again how lucky the Ninth has been on disc. In paticularly, Segerstam and Inbal are both underrated performances likely to be overlooked, even by hard-core fans. I appreciate your reminding me of them once again!

Dave H

It seems I have indeed overlooked these...I shall seek and find.

Scott I really like your list as well.  Good to see the fantastic Inoue/NJP/Exton on there!  Speaking of Exton, I think of the autumnal  Neuman/CPO/Exton M9...a real beautifully played M9.

I also like you mentioned the MTT/SFSO M9...I still really like this performance.


--Todd

[barry guerrero]

Leo,

If you don't end up purchasing the box of the entire Segerstam cycle (really among the best of the "slow" cycles), symphonies 7 & 9 got issued in a three disc set. While the tempi were consistently on the slow side for both symphonies - and I know that you don't mind slower performances - there's really plenty of ear candy (interesting details) to keep one from getting too bored. A person could do far worse.

Barry

[John Kim]

Regarding the Segerstam M9th, sometimes I am bothered by the odd balance. For instance, in the second climax (that begins with a timpani solo) of I. the trumpets don't cut through well, whereas in the third they are very audible. Bertini/EMI also has the same problem as do many other versions. It might be a small quibble but a critical one at that because the instrument carries so much weight in the climactic passages. Likewise, horns can get buried easily in these places mitigating much of the emotional impact. I laud Lopez-Cobos on Telarc in this aspect for letting the brass get loose all the way.

M9th may be a lucky symphony on records, but few versions reach the very height it deserves.

John,

[John Kim]

Now that I mentioned the Lopez-Cobos/CSO/Telarc, how do you folks like this recording? Dave, would you recommend this one?

I must confess that I have tried hard to like this recording over the years. I was particularly displeased with the overly bright, often harsh sound quality. But I think I finally found a right way to play the CD: a Denon CD recorder just does it  . It now sounds truly spectacular with none of the digital glitches I was unhappy with. At a high volume on this machine it indeed sounds like the best sounding Mahler Ninth ever (as an ARG critic declared it). Needless to say, I have become to love the performance as well. It is modeled based on Walter's Columbia recording but Lopez-Cobos gives much freedom and reign to the brass and percussion sections, sometimes to the extent of making the music a concert for brass and percussion.

John,

[sperlsco]

Now that I mentioned the Lopez-Cobos/CSO/Telarc, how do you folks like this recording? Dave, would you recommend this one?

I must confess that I have tried hard to like this recording over the years. I was particularly displeased with the overly bright, often harsh sound quality. But I think I finally found a right way to play the CD: a Denon CD recorder just does it  . It now sounds truly spectacular with none of the digital glitches I was unhappy with. At a high volume on this machine it indeed sounds like the best sounding Mahler Ninth ever (as an ARG critic declared it). Needless to say, I have become to love the performance as well. It is modeled based on Walter's Columbia recording but Lopez-Cobos gives much freedom and reign to the brass and percussion sections, sometimes to the extent of making the music a concert for brass and percussion.

John,

I haven't listened to this one in a long time, but don't remember it being proportioned like a Walter M9.  Aren't the first and last movements evenly balanced at around 28', as opposed to a longish first movment, quick finale (28' v. 21') of the Walter?  I keep wanting to pull the Lopez-Cobos recording out at home, since it was recorded with Dolby Surround information.  Unfortunately, I never remember this recording on such occassions, since I always focus on my SACD collection. 

[Dave H]

John:

I like Lopez-Cobos--it's very well played, well recorded, and it pushes all the right buttons, but it's not in my top few simply because it lacks (for want of a better word) personality, particularly in the inner movements. It strikes me as the kind of performance that would have gotten much more attention if the competition hadn't already been so strong.

As for very few recordings getting to "the heights," I'm not sure what that means. I think quite a few actually reach the level beyond which you're simply dealing with personal preference regarding tiny points of detail, and that's pretty remarkable.

Dave H

[Polarius T]

Has anyone else listened to one of my current favorites:



Just curious to hear people's reactions. It's surprisingly caring and warmly done, as everything touched upon by the baton of this unflappable arch-modernist who was a man of many loves.

There are a couple of good comments on the recording by Amazon.com readers at http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-No-9/dp/B000ENC6VE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1218019876&sr=8-1 for those interested.

-PT