Author Topic: Salonen M9 on Signum  (Read 16420 times)

Offline GL

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2010, 09:47:41 AM »
Todd,

I know there are folks who hate the Sinopoli and Abbado. But hey, isn't it nice to have such alternative but compelling versions available? I listened to the Abbado last night and it sounded just great. In some ways, I prefer Abbado's Viennese recording over the BPO one.

John,

Someone likes DG Sinopoli's Ninth, someoone else has defined it a "decadent mess", but it's not the point. Everyone here has his own tastes and knows his Mahler. I'm sure there are even people that like Kletzki's Ninth, a Ninth with cuts in movements 2 and 3. If I were an honest critic that has to draw a list of reference recordings of the Ninth, I would not recommend Kletki's because the cuts make this version a misrepresentation of what Mahler had intended as his "Ninth Symphony". Ok, Kletki's is not on the list considered here, but, hey, look what this list lacks: no trace of Ancerl, Giulini, Klemperer, Masur, Tilson Thomas... no trace of the New York Philharmonic! And Karajan and Abbado are not present with what are generally considered their best renditions. How is possible to take this list seriously?
 
So, I think that the guys that compiled this list were simply trying to distinguish themselves, like the english critic that, not so much time ago, stated that the best Brunhilde's immolation scene ever put on disc is a certain one recorded in 1903 (sic!!!). I'm tired of this conformism of nonconformism and I won't care anymore about this or other weird lists.

Best regards,
Luca

P. S.
I know that Sinopoli conducted many Mahler's Symphonies, in Dresden, among them the 5th and the 6th., but I don't know with what results. Anyway, it would be nice to have the opportunity to listen to them: perhaps, the Staatskapelle Dresden is the best orchestra in Germany (pace BPO- even Karajan acknowledged that when he recorded the Meistersinger with them), so it is very regrettable we have so few Mahler's recordings from this orchestra (the new principal conductor, C. Thielemann, will conduct Mahler for the first time this autumn, but in Munich. Let's see what will happen).

Offline Leo K

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2010, 05:11:03 PM »
Todd,

I know there are folks who hate the Sinopoli and Abbado. But hey, isn't it nice to have such alternative but compelling versions available? I listened to the Abbado last night and it sounded just great. In some ways, I prefer Abbado's Viennese recording over the BPO one.

John,

I vastly prefer Abbado's VPO M9 over his later BPO account.  I don't really enjoy his BPO, and somehow I feel I should but perhaps the sonics put me off...this recording has gotten great reviews but I'm not hearing the greatness.  I want to like it.  Someone help me like it!

--Todd

Offline John Kim

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2010, 05:22:47 PM »
Todd,

I know there are folks who hate the Sinopoli and Abbado. But hey, isn't it nice to have such alternative but compelling versions available? I listened to the Abbado last night and it sounded just great. In some ways, I prefer Abbado's Viennese recording over the BPO one.

John,

I vastly prefer Abbado's VPO M9 over his later BPO account.  I don't really enjoy his BPO, and somehow I feel I should but perhaps the sonics put me off...this recording has gotten great reviews but I'm not hearing the greatness.  I want to like it.  Someone help me like it!

--Todd

Ditto ;D :D ;)

Like Todd, I've always felt that Abbado's second at go with BPO has been overrated. Yes, it has great playing - except for that terrible cymbal crash misplaced in the first climax of I. - and Abbado's take-no-prisoners kind of approach works pretty well in the middle movts. And yes, the Finale has a fine sense of proportion and the Berlin strings shine in the closing pages. But I. is somewhat undercharacterized; it's even shorter than IV. in its timing. Worst of all, the sonics are below par, especially in I. It is if as if the engineers were doing an experiment with buttons and knobs in the first 20-30 min. to find an optimal setting; the sound improves significantly from the second movt. on. Unfortunately, for me the rise and fall of Mahler Ninth goes with the great Andante movt. and for this reason and the others I can't really warm up to this recording. Abbado's early version with VPO may not be as well streamlined as this one, but I am told that was how he felts the piece should go at that time (he was under the spell of Berg) and I can fully buy his perspective.

IMO, Abbado's best M9th was the live recording with BPO from the 1995 Mahler Festival in Amsterdam, closely followed by the VPO recording.

Having said all this, I am still looking forward to his upcoming version with LFO.

John,
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 05:25:06 PM by John Kim »

Offline Leo K

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2010, 05:54:04 PM »
Todd,

I know there are folks who hate the Sinopoli and Abbado. But hey, isn't it nice to have such alternative but compelling versions available? I listened to the Abbado last night and it sounded just great. In some ways, I prefer Abbado's Viennese recording over the BPO one.

John,

I vastly prefer Abbado's VPO M9 over his later BPO account.  I don't really enjoy his BPO, and somehow I feel I should but perhaps the sonics put me off...this recording has gotten great reviews but I'm not hearing the greatness.  I want to like it.  Someone help me like it!

--Todd

Ditto ;D :D ;)

Like Todd, I've always felt that Abbado's second at go with BPO has been overrated. Yes, it has great playing - except for that terrible cymbal crash misplaced in the first climax of I. - and Abbado's take-no-prisoners kind of approach works pretty well in the middle movts. And yes, the Finale has a fine sense of proportion and the Berlin strings shine in the closing pages. But I. is somewhat undercharacterized; it's even shorter than IV. in its timing. Worst of all, the sonics are below par, especially in I. It is if as if the engineers were doing an experiment with buttons and knobs in the first 20-30 min. to find an optimal setting; the sound improves significantly from the second movt. on. Unfortunately, for me the rise and fall of Mahler Ninth goes with the great Andante movt. and for this reason and the others I can't really warm up to this recording. Abbado's early version with VPO may not be as well streamlined as this one, but I am told that was how he felts the piece should go at that time (he was under the spell of Berg) and I can fully buy his perspective.

IMO, Abbado's best M9th was the live recording with BPO from the 1995 Mahler Festival in Amsterdam, closely followed by the VPO recording.

Having said all this, I am still looking forward to his upcoming version with LFO.

John,

John,

Your comments reflect my feelings about the Abbado BPO.  It is the first movement sonics that are dissapointing, and this ruins the recording.

His VPO is more mysterious, and like you said, not streamlined and rather wandering in spirit.  This works somehow.  I did not know Abbado was under the spell of Berg for his VPO account, but this makes sense!  No wonder I love it.

--Todd


Offline GL

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2010, 06:51:49 PM »

IMO, Abbado's best M9th was the live recording with BPO from the 1995 Mahler Festival in Amsterdam, closely followed by the VPO recording.

Having said all this, I am still looking forward to his upcoming version with LFO.

John,

The VPO version was recorded in May 1987, in Vienna, live at the Konzerthaus (CD DGG).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-9-Gustav/dp/B00000E3ZW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280774829&sr=1-5

After the Mahlerfeest in Amsterdam, he recorded the celebrated BPO version in Berlin, in September 1999, live at the Philharmonie (CD DGG).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-9-Berliner-Philharmoniker/dp/B000063WRS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280774829&sr=1-1

On April, 14, 2004, he recorded it with the Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester, live at the Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia, in Rome (DVD Euroarts).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mahler-Symphony-No-9-Claudio-Abbado/dp/B0006JHRE2/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1280773969&sr=1-1

I have a ticket for the concert of  August, 20 in Luzern. I hope it will be worth the trip.

Luca

P.S.

In Rome, music and lights fade away together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiqD9Xc0WnE
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 03:00:36 PM by GL »

Offline John Kim

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2010, 04:15:57 AM »
I found this recording very ordinary. Too fast and routine, Salonen doesn't add anything new to the score and just seems to go through the motion. The playing is very good but the sound quality, recorded live, is disappointing. It is as if the engineer had to stick in the mikes very close to the podium. Its sounds hopelessly closed-up, one dimensional, all centered around the conductor's position.

John,

Offline chalkpie

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2010, 04:59:47 PM »
Todd,

I know there are folks who hate the Sinopoli and Abbado. But hey, isn't it nice to have such alternative but compelling versions available? I listened to the Abbado last night and it sounded just great. In some ways, I prefer Abbado's Viennese recording over the BPO one.

John,

I vastly prefer Abbado's VPO M9 over his later BPO account.  I don't really enjoy his BPO, and somehow I feel I should but perhaps the sonics put me off...this recording has gotten great reviews but I'm not hearing the greatness.  I want to like it.  Someone help me like it!

--Todd


Todd - I only own Abbado's M6 and M7 BPO/DG and I think the sound quality is garbage on both. Hate it. Good playing, but the sonics just spoil it for me.

Offline Russell

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2010, 06:09:49 PM »
I found this recording very ordinary. Too fast and routine, Salonen doesn't add anything new to the score and just seems to go through the motion. The playing is very good but the sound quality, recorded live, is disappointing. It is as if the engineer had to stick in the mikes very close to the podium. Its sounds hopelessly closed-up, one dimensional, all centered around the conductor's position.

John,

Rather surprisingly, this recording got a pretty mediocre review in the latest 'Gramophone' magazine. (Surprising to me because they usually find something good to say about any recording with British artists--in this case the orchestra.)  It "fails to stir the emotions," the reviewer says.  I think I'll skip this one....

Russell

Offline John Kim

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2010, 06:10:16 PM »
The sonics on Abbado/BPO/DG M7th and M9th are from mediocre to intolerable.

The Abbado/BPO/DG M6th (on SACD) is much better though (but not quite ideal).

The sound on Abbado/VPO/DG M9th, OTOH, is flawless, gorgeous and it is spectacularly recorded. I think it's one of the very best that DG did engineering-wise.

John,

Offline chalkpie

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Re: Salonen M9 on Signum
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2010, 12:47:59 AM »
The sonics on Abbado/BPO/DG M7th and M9th are from mediocre to intolerable.

The Abbado/BPO/DG M6th (on SACD) is much better though (but not quite ideal).

The sound on Abbado/VPO/DG M9th, OTOH, is flawless, gorgeous and it is spectacularly recorded. I think it's one of the very best that DG did engineering-wise.

John,

Wow! I may check that out - thanks

 

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