Re-exploring Mahler

[merlin]

After more than a dozen years, I have begun listening to Mahler's symphonies again, after discovering a carton of discs hidden away in the garage.

I of course wanted to love, or at least like, all of them, but unfortunately my experience was a mixed bag.  Here are some details about each.

M1 - Bernstein/Concertgebouw/DGG - loved it!

M2 - Rattle/CBSO/EMI - enjoyed the outer two movements very much, but the rest was basically boring.  I thought that better sonics might improve things so ordered Fischer/BFO/Channel Classics SACD.

M3 - Horenstein/LSO/Unicorn - mostly good, and the last movement was fantastically moving.

M4 - Maazel/VPO/CBS Masterworks - boring.

M5 - Bernstein/VPO/DGG - enjoyed the first and fourth movements.

M6 - Barbirolli/NPO/EMI Classics - fantastic!  Ordered Bernstein/VPO/DGG to see if I would like it even more.

M7 - Bernstein/NYPO/DGG - unmoved by it.

M8 - Segerstam/DNRSO/Chandos - mostly excellent, but definitely dragged in the middle of the second part.  Also there was lots of digital glare.  I ordered Wit/WNPO/Naxos.

M9 - Bernstein/BPO/DGG - wonderful.  Since I did not know when the trombones were supposed to come in, I did not miss them!

M10 adagio - Segerstam/DNRSO/Chandos - wonderfully moving, but same digital glare as M8.

So I am wondering if anyone might comment and/or make suggestions of other versions that I might explore?

[Russ Smiley]

I'll offer these (some off-the-beaten-path) alternatives to consider

M1 - de Waart/Minnesota
M2 - Blomstedt/SFO, Jansons/Oslo
M3 - Zinman/Tonhalle
M4 - Chailly/RCO, Levi/ASO
M5 - Shipway/RPO
M6 - Farberman/LSO, Boulez/VPO
M7 - Halász/Polish NRSO, Bertini/Köln
M8 - Wit/Warsaw (you have that one), Bertini/Köln
M9 - Giulini/CSO, Sinolopi/Philharmonia
M10 - Chailly/Berlin RSO
The Welte-Mignon Piano Rolls - Mahler on recording piano

Russ

[merlin]

I listened to M9 today, the second day in a row, and was even more impressed than yesterday.  It has to be one of the most moving and expansive pieces of music ever, along with LvB9.

Since I love this version (Bernstein/BPO), are there others, in addition to Russ' suggestions, that I might enjoy equally?

I have read some good things here about Chailly's RCO SACD.

[Leo K]

I listened to M9 today, the second day in a row, and was even more impressed than yesterday.  It has to be one of the most moving and expansive pieces of music ever, along with LvB9.

Since I love this version (Bernstein/BPO), are there others, in addition to Russ' suggestions, that I might enjoy equally?

I have read some good things here about Chailly's RCO SACD.

This is an excellant M9, near the top of my list right now...I particularly love the pacing, and the execution of the BPO...incredible and passionate M9.

Chailly is another good choice as well...I am not as familiar with the Chailly yet, but I got the SACD version, and I'm going to listen soon.


--Todd

[barry guerrero]

Chailly and Rattle are both very good suggestions. I wouldn't write off the live Karajan one. It has a lot of intensity in all four movements, which isn't always the case. on the Bernstein/BPO Mahler 9, I just wish that the trombones weren't missing at the climactic passage of the fourth movement. That pretty much spoils it for me.

Barry

[merlin]

In my continuing re-exploration, I just finished listening to M5.  Wow!

The passion, excitement, sensitivity, and intensity Lenny brings to Mahler is astounding.  For me, this is how it should be played.

And whilst the SQ is very good, I wish that DG would have reissued these performances as SACDs.

[Don]

Don't just stop at the Adagio of the 10th! A whole world awaits with the completed versions. Ormandy/Philadelphia, Sanderling/Berlin SO, Litton/Dallas, Gielen/SWGerman Radio.... some to start with!

[merlin]

Don't just stop at the Adagio of the 10th! A whole world awaits with the completed versions. Ormandy/Philadelphia, Sanderling/Berlin SO, Litton/Dallas, Gielen/SWGerman Radio.... some to start with!

But is this Mahler any more than the second part of the Requiem is Mozart?

I will always admire Toscanini for stopping in the first perfomance of Tosca and announcing to the audience, with tears streaming, "This is where the maestro died."

[Don]

Mahler's 10th was left in such a state that the basic outline and orchestration of the uncompleted music could be discerned. Mostly missing was orchestration and fleshing out of the music from the short score. None of the completed versions could claim or do claim for that matter to be exactly as Mahler wished. Of course, any completion of an unfinished work is by definition a compromise, and the 10th in its several versions, is just that, a compromise. But to ignore it one misses a great deal of fabulous music and an incredible musical experience.

Just my 2 cents.

Just to clarify, the Toscanini quote was about Turandot not Tosca.

[barry guerrero]

In my opinion, it's far more complete than the Mozart Requiem.

[merlin]

@Don - Thanks for the Turandot clarification.  I am about as far from a fan of opera as can be, so really would not know the difference between the two!

As for the Mozart Requiem, whilst I very much enjoy listening to two different versions -- the one completed by Sussmayr, which is most well-known, and the other more recently by Robert Levin -- it is all-too-obvious where Mozart left off.

But given what Barry and you said about M10, I am bound to give it a go.  Which version would be best, for starters?

[Leo K]

@Don - Thanks for the Turandot clarification.  I am about as far from a fan of opera as can be, so really would not know the difference between the two!

As for the Mozart Requiem, whilst I very much enjoy listening to two different versions -- the one completed by Sussmayr, which is most well-known, and the other more recently by Robert Levin -- it is all-too-obvious where Mozart left off.

But given what Barry and you said about M10, I am bound to give it a go.  Which version would be best, for starters?

Which M10 to start with?  Hmmm...a great question.  My first complete M10 was the Chailly (using the Cooke II edition?), and after hearing this performance I was truly amazed and became addicted to this work.  Ater the Chailly I found the 1st Rattle M10 (with Birmingham), which is pretty great to.

I'd say start with the Chailly, and then find the Litton/Dallas which uses a vastly different edition, the controversal Carpenter edition, which for many around here is at the top of their M10 lists.

Eventually you's want every editon and recording though...it's like Kurosawa's Rashomon...every point of view is needed to flesh out the story!  There is more than one witness!

--Todd

[merlin]

Thanks for the suggestion, Todd.  I put Chailly M10 on my wishlist at MDT.

Now Rashomon, that's one great film!!!  What you see depends upon where you stand.

[Don]

Thanks for the suggestion, Todd.  I put Chailly M10 on my wishlist at MDT.

Now Rashomon, that's one great film!!!  What you see depends upon where you stand.

Good choice. Chailly uses the Cooke II version. If you approach M10 with the same idea (What you hear depends upon where you stand.), you will enjoy the M10.

[merlin]

Chailly M10 arrived in this afternoon's post, and I listened to it immediately.  I found it interesting and very moving in parts, especially knowing about Gustav discovering Alma's affair with Gropius whilst writing this piece, and his ability to transcend the feelings of betrayal.

It does seem that more percussion in places would make it more Mahlerian, so to speak, but all in all, a worthwhile experience.

Thanks to Don and others for the recommendation!