Bernstein's Mahler - The Complete Recordings on Deutsche Grammophon

[merlin]

Although these appear to be the same performances originally issued separately, does anyone know if they have been re-mastered for these boxes (Vols. I, II, III)?

[John Kim]

Although these appear to be the same performances originally issued separately, does anyone know if they have been re-mastered for these boxes (Vols. I, II, III)?

This was the question I asked originally.

I doubt that they did a remastering and for this reason I'd rather go for Japanese SHM-CD (super high material CD) version of the same recoridngs.

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2746907

John,

[merlin]

Thanks for the info, but ~$300 is a bit much, considering that the three boxes of CDs are available for ~$25 each including shipping.

Perhaps if they were SACDs it would be worth it.

Also, I wonder if anyone has done A/B testing of these against RBCDs.  My understanding is that the SHM-CDs are not remastered, and although they are pressed on a somewhat better plastic this would not necessarily indicate an increase in SQ commensurate with the high cost.

They certainly do not have the frequency response and higher resolution of SACDs.

[Leo K]

Thanks for the info, but ~$300 is a bit much, considering that the three boxes of CDs are available for ~$25 each including shipping.

Perhaps if they were SACDs it would be worth it.

Also, I wonder if anyone has done A/B testing of these against RBCDs.  My understanding is that the SHM-CDs are not remastered, and although they are pressed on a somewhat better plastic this would not necessarily indicate an increase in SQ commensurate with the high cost.

They certainly do not have the frequency response and higher resolution of SACDs.

I really wish I could find a detailed review of this SHM-CD set, with comparison with the RBCD.

John Kim, can you make out the Japanese language in those brief reviews on the HMV page above?

--Todd

[John Kim]

Todd,

I don't understand Japanese well as it's been more than 20 years ago since I learned the language but have not practiced it.

I think most of the reviews are about the greatness of this Mahler cycle, rather than the sound quality of the SHM-CDs. I think some of them also wish that SACD version will be released some day.

But based on my experience with remastered DG CDs released in Japan, I am pretty sure they've done a great job with these discs.
 
Sorry I can't help much here.

Best,

John,

[oscar]

I own onlu one SHM-CD:  Bruckner 4 conducted by Böhm.

The sound, compared to the normal cd is much more clear and detailed.  It is not surround sound, but the improvement is there for all to listen.
Similarly, I have found that the japanese mastering of Polygram and EMI discs is in general superior to what you get in the EU or USA.

My feeling is that the extra outlay of € is especially worth for the interpretations that I enjoy ther miost.

[barry guerrero]

FYI, the Bernstein ones that have been broken into the three boxes are definitely remastered in comparison to their original issues. They're slightly less bright, and slightly more hall ambiance and "air" around the instruments. The differences aren't huge but they are noticeable.

Barry

[Amphissa]

I've never heard an SHM-CD disc, but the consensus on hi rez audio discussion boards is that SHM-CD is not a hi rez recording format and that the audio quality cannot approach SACD or DVD-A. Basically, they are they are the same recording as the original CD they were derived from, just imprinted on a different material. Not remastered, and certainly not worth the kind of prices they are charging. A marketing scam.

Here's a quote --

"FWIW, I’ve done a number of comparisons between SHM-CDs and their regular redbook counterparts. My conclusion is that it’s completely title-dependent. Some SHMs are quite good, while others are pure garbage. While I own several SHM-CDs (I bought them mainly out of curiosity), overall I simply can’t justify the premium that these discs command—not in sonic terms. And I have a hard time getting past the idea that it’s just another scheme to market the same titles to consumers for the umpteenth time."

In the past year, having upgraded my audio player to a high quality SACD player, I now can hear significant audio improvement of SACD over standard redbook CD. I now typically buy SACD version of recordings when available. So, it's not just a money thing for me. SHM-CD is just not worth extra dollars to me.
 

[merlin]

@Barry: "FYI, the Bernstein ones that have been broken into the three boxes are definitely remastered in comparison to their original issues. They're slightly less bright, and slightly more hall ambiance and "air" around the instruments. The differences aren't huge but they are noticeable."

I am very glad to hear this!  I ordered the first two boxes of the set -- some will replace original discs, and others I did not have (nos. 2, 3, 4, 6).

Since I already have no. 8 on SACD from Sony Japan and no. 9 with the BPO, I did not order the third box.

[John Kim]

FYI, the Bernstein ones that have been broken into the three boxes are definitely remastered in comparison to their original issues. They're slightly less bright, and slightly more hall ambiance and "air" around the instruments. The differences aren't huge but they are noticeable.

Barry

Still, I bet they might not sound as good as the Japanese pressings. I have the Japanese M2 and M9 and they sound distinctly better than the previous editions included in the 16 CD set which itself was remastered.

[akiralx]

I own onlu one SHM-CD:  Bruckner 4 conducted by Böhm.

The sound, compared to the normal cd is much more clear and detailed.  It is not surround sound, but the improvement is there for all to listen.
Similarly, I have found that the japanese mastering of Polygram and EMI discs is in general superior to what you get in the EU or USA.

I have the Japanese SACD (stereo only) of the VPO/Bohm Bruckner 4 - it sounds excellent but if you have the Decca Legends CD you are about 90% there already.

Like you, though, I would agree that there is often a clear improvement in Japanese remasterings of Universal CDs - e.g. I have a Japanese mastered DG CD of Karajan's classic mid-1960s Sibelius 5 and 7, and the improvement in sound even over the DG Originals 4-7 set is startling.

[merlin]

Still, I bet they might not sound as good as the Japanese pressings. I have the Japanese M2 and M9 and they sound distinctly better than the previous editions included in the 16 CD set which itself was remastered.

I have only seen the SHM-CDs of Bernstein/DG as a complete set for ~32000 yen, not individual symphonies.

[Leo K]

I've been listening to sound samples of this SHM-CD set at HMV, and the sound is fantastic:

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail.asp?sku=2746907&track=1


--Todd

[merlin]

I have listened to M 1-3 and 6 from this set so far.  Whilst the SQ ranges from very good to excellent, the music is amazing!!!

However, having just finished listening to M4, I found it to be by far the least engaging of the symphonies.  I felt the same way with Maazel/VPO.

[Leo K]

I have listened to M 1-3 and 6 from this set so far.  Whilst the SQ ranges from very good to excellent, the music is amazing!!!

However, having just finished listening to M4, I found it to be by far the least engaging of the symphonies.  I felt the same way with Maazel/VPO.

For years, the Maazel and Bernstein M4's you mention where the M4's I listened to, and I didn't listen to the M4 much, although now I really love these recordings, they are more subtle in performance, but they are great indeed.  It wasn't until I listened to the Salonen/Hendricks M4 my ears started to catch the beauty...and later when hearing this work on SACD, such as the Boulez and Haitink latest M4, that the M4 started to become my favorite Mahler work, to my surprise.  The MTT/SFSO SACD is also very grand, with beautiful sonics, as is the Macal/CPO M4.

Now, one of my ultimate M4's is not SACD, but one on the laserlight label with Haenchen conducting...this is a fantastic M4 in every way.

Anyways, the M4 took the longest, along with DLVdE and the M8 for me to love and really become overwhelmed by the beauty of the chamber-like orchestration...like I said, this is one of Mahler's best works for me.

--Todd