Author Topic: Two US M6s from the mid-60s  (Read 17409 times)

Offline akiralx

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Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« on: January 23, 2009, 04:48:13 PM »

By a strange coincidence two M6s hit my doormat a few days ago - both are American, mid-60s and last with 2 secs of each other.  They are Cleveland/Szell and Boston SO/Leinsdorf, the latter on a Japanese RCA CD.  I think I'm right in saying it has never been on CD before.  I have listened to both now.

The Szell is a famous recording which I had actually never heard before.  This was the Great Performances incarnation, which I believe improves the sound somewhat over the Essential Classics CD.  I didn't find this too enthralling, a solid, well played account which I suspect was one of the best around when it first came out but now is eclipsed by many more recent versions.

But the Leinsdorf was a bit of a revelation - I've never really been interested in his recordings (I have his second Madama Butterfly on SACD) but this is spectacular - whether the LPs were this good I can't say but this Japanese CD sounds magnificent, rich, vivid with excellent depth and a wide soundstage.  The percussion has a presence which I can't recall hearing on many modern Mahler CDs or even SACDs.  On the cover the BSO are hailed as 'The Aristocrat of Orchestras' and they sound superb here.

At the time of release this recording was quite well-received, much better than his M1, M3 and M5, but some felt that Leinsdorf's quick tempi missed some of the inner depth of the work, but I didn't feel that.  Nor did I actually think the tempi were fast, at least compared to modern M6 recordings.  The performance is quite extrovert if not excessively wild, but never threatens to become a 'Mahler-as-concerto-for-orchestra' as some feel, say, Solti sometimes did.  I might say that Leinsdorf excels more at the faster music, so the Andante (placed third) has been done better by conductors like Karajan and others.

The detail of the recording make it very interesting and compelling for me, and may now sit near the top of my favourite M6s alongside Dohnanyi, Abbado II and MTT.

Offline John Kim

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 05:38:41 PM »
I too own the Japanese Leisdorf/BSO/RCA M6th CD and adore it as much as you do.

I'd certainly put it above the Dohnanyi which is, IMO, mediocre at best and terrible at worst. The sound, as you reported, is wonderful with plenty of warmth but many details.

John,

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 12:50:36 AM »
Strange. Other than the metallic "ping" hammer strokes (which are just awful), I like the Dohnanyi M6 very much. It's a lot like the Boulez/VPO one. It's very "classical"; somewhat like Haydn in his predominately minor key, "sturm & drang" period; but on steroids, of course.

As for Leinsdorf BSO M6, I've only heard it on vinyl. But I remember liking it much more than his BSO M3, which I think has some serious problems. I think it's probably a good deal better than the Leinsdorf M6 that came out on Orfeo that everybody made such a big deal over. That one truly has nothing special going for it.

As for the Szell M6, I completely agree. It's totally dated now.

Offline Russell

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2009, 05:12:50 AM »
Wow--I thought I was the only one on the planet who loves the Leinsdorf/BSO M6.  It was that very recording that turned me on to classical music in a big way--I heard a radio broadcast of it many years ago and I was hooked.  I was really delighted to see that RCA Japan had seen fit to issue it on CD; it really sounds terrific.  I only regret the lack of the exposition repeat in the first movement, but I guess you can't have everything...

Russell

Offline John Kim

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2009, 05:56:50 AM »
I once heard Leisndorf/BPO (Berlin Phil.) M3rd concert from the early 80's. It was one of the best M3rds I ever heard and very surprising one at that because I had little expectation before it started.

John,

Offline stillivor

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 04:07:33 PM »
  What is a "dated" recording mean, e.g. the Szell?

I assume one reason the Szell got delayed from release originally is an inaccuracy from the side-drummer at the very beginning.


  Ivor

Offline akiralx

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 11:47:11 AM »
  What is a "dated" recording mean, e.g. the Szell?

I assume one reason the Szell got delayed from release originally is an inaccuracy from the side-drummer at the very beginning.

Well, without wishing to second-guess Barry, there are two issues, sound and performance.  The sound is OK (a rare live commercial recording from Szell) but it cannot compare with more modern recordings, certainly not with the Leinsdorf which was made a year or two earlier I think.  The performance is decent but rather plain and slightly lacking the flair other conductors bring to the work - and which Szell brought to other music, e.g. his great recordings of Wagner and Tchaikovsky. 

How one reacts to an interpretation is very personal, but I didn't find any particular insights into the work from Szell here.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 06:12:58 PM »
What is a "dated" recording mean, e.g. the Szell?

It's simply well played without any real insights into the composition. There's no exposition repeat; the scherzo isn't the slightest bit "spooky", and the two hammer blows are very underwhelming. I say all this as someone who, generally speaking, very much likes George Szell.

Offline vvrinc

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2009, 04:34:19 AM »
Akiralx, where did you find the Leinsdorf/Boston Mahler 6 on CD? I can't seem to find any place that even lists it. HMV.JP only has the live Bavarian on Orfeo. Thanks for your consideration. I have the Boston 5th and find that it does have its moments.

Offline akiralx

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009, 09:54:33 AM »
Akiralx, where did you find the Leinsdorf/Boston Mahler 6 on CD? I can't seem to find any place that even lists it. HMV.JP only has the live Bavarian on Orfeo. Thanks for your consideration. I have the Boston 5th and find that it does have its moments.


On eBay.uk so sadly I can't point you towards a reliable online source.

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2009, 02:10:13 PM »
I too own the Japanese Leisdorf/BSO/RCA M6th CD and adore it as much as you do.
 

I would love to know where you got this CD. Searching the web has turned up only Leinsdorf's M1, M3 and M5

I had the LPs of M6 and found it one of the best ever performances and recording (despite the warpy RCA pressings)

In my searching I did, however locate a live M6 with Leindsorf and the BSO from 1966: according to the nasal announcer, this was the first BSO performance of the symphony. It's an excellent performance, but in low-fi air-check audio

Offline Russell

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2009, 04:19:25 PM »
I too own the Japanese Leisdorf/BSO/RCA M6th CD and adore it as much as you do.
 

I would love to know where you got this CD. Searching the web has turned up only Leinsdorf's M1, M3 and M5

I had the LPs of M6 and found it one of the best ever performances and recording (despite the warpy RCA pressings)

In my searching I did, however locate a live M6 with Leindsorf and the BSO from 1966: according to the nasal announcer, this was the first BSO performance of the symphony. It's an excellent performance, but in low-fi air-check audio

I got my copy from HMV Japan in 2003. Many Japanese CDs go out of print pretty quickly, unfortunately.

Russell

Mackjay

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 11:28:27 AM »
Thanks, I will keep looking for that Japanese CD

in the meantime, I discovered this 1964 aircheck performance of M6 by Leinsdorf and the BSO. According to the nasal announcer, the first time the symphony was played by that orchestra. It's quite a performance, with the bite I remember from Leinsdorf's studio recording. Decent radio sound from the period.

Here's a link:
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:6zoxmn-wg2gJ:www.entsharing.com/music/classical/gustav-mahler-symphony-no-6-erich-leinsdorf-bso/+rapidshare+leinsdorf+mahler&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

Mackjay

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2009, 08:46:04 PM »
Well I finally got ahold of the Japanese CD of M6 with Leinsdorf and the BSO. It's the performance I remember for sure: plenty of audible percussion, deep-digging basses, overall intense playing. No repeat in Movement I, which actually works well because Leinsdorf initial pacing is on the slow side so the opening has a lot of weight.

I guess nobody was interested in hearing the first BSO performance from a 1964 radio broadcast posted above. :-[
 This studio recording has better sound (stereo) but I was a little disappointed in the transfer which sounds slightly boxy, not the spacious recording I remember from the old RCA LPs. Still, I'm glad to have it. Thanks for the tips on finding it (got from an Ebay seller)  :)

Offline Leo K

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Re: Two US M6s from the mid-60s
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2009, 07:49:42 AM »
Great!  I saw this LP set recently at a store near my area...think I'll pick it up tomorrow after class.  Thanks for the reviews everyone!

--Todd

 

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