Author Topic: Mahler recordings by Boulez.  (Read 15985 times)

Offline oscar

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Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« on: June 13, 2009, 03:33:59 PM »
Pierre Boulez  has completed his Mahler cycle for DGG.

My impression is that it is a somewhat uneven cycle.  What is the opinion out there ?

best,

Oscar.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2009, 03:54:57 PM »
Let's face it, they're all pretty much uneven. But come to think of it, the Boulez cycle strikes me as one of the more "even handed" ones. For me, his "DLvdE" is the low point. The high water marks, for me, would be his Vienna M3 (get the sacd hybrid version); the M6 (the first item in the cycle), and the three shorter song cycles disc (with three different singers) . The two Cleveland items (M4 & M7) are pretty good too.  The Chicago M1 is quite good, although the scherzo is a tad too fast for my liking. The Chicago M9 has a very good first movement, but the last three movements are a tad prosaic (and swift in the last movement). I like the Berlin 8th, which was recorded in the generous acoustics of the Jesus Christus Kirche, although the end of Part II turns out to be less thrilling than his ending to Part I. I'm not wild about the Vienna M2, but the DVD of M2 from Berlin's Philharmonie addresses pretty much all of the shortcomings of the studio recording (little or no organ being the biggest shortcoming).

Anyway, this cycle is easily good enough that I hope DG is going to throw it into some kind of nice box (with ALL of the items inclduded, please). I see that according to HMV Japan, DG is coming out with a Boulez Bartok box (yeaaaaah!).

Offline John Kim

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 06:44:35 PM »
Yes, I like Boulez's M3rd and M6th very much.

I also like the first movt. of the M9th but as Barry said the rest of the recording is somewhat letdown by Boulez's no-nonsense, ordinary approach.

Being with CVLO the M7th is also pretty good.

Have not heard the M5th though.

I also heard Boulez's analogue recording of M3 with NYPO and find it even more satisfactory than the VPO recording. For one thing, nobody has ever captured the true spirit of Scherzo movt. like Boulez did; in the coda he is the only conductor who let the climax slowly and gradually pile up. It's quite awesome.

John,

Offline akiralx

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2009, 08:42:03 AM »

Yep, the M3 SACD is very good, though I'm listening more to Kobayashi and Segerstam for that work.

The M4 is OK, with unusually swift tempi, but Banse in the finale is not so good - I like Haitink's recent SACD for a quickish, fresh M4.

I like the M2 a lot but I haven't seen the DVD.

The M7 is also very fine, but maybe Barenboim is better.

Offline mister bob

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2009, 03:08:14 PM »
I think Boulez's M6 is truly excellent.  He brings the same degree of punch and detail that one can hear in his outstanding 'Rite of Spring'.  He doesn't let the piece run away with him.  His M5 on the other hand is a complete non-starter; the opening bars simply fail to grab you enough to make you want to hear how things progress.  I disliked it so much I sold it.

Offline mahlerei

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2009, 11:27:19 AM »
Agreed, the Boulez cycle is uneven; for me M2 and M8 are the low points - PB just doesn't seem comfortable with these works - with the Urmana/Quasthoff songs and M6 the high points.


Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2009, 12:03:13 AM »
I rather like his 8th. I like that it was recorded in the Jesus Christus Kirche, instead of the Philharmonie. The tenor is terrific. For me, the only truly disappointing element is the end of Part II, which is a bit underwhelming compared to Boulez's incredibly protracted ending to Part I. For some reason, the organ is stronger at the end of Part I, than at end of the Part II as well. Still, I enjoyed it.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2009, 09:00:10 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline mahlerei

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2009, 01:34:26 AM »
Indeed, Part II sounds very episodic in PB's hands. To be fair he's not the only one to come unstuck here. Curiously, the radio broadcast that preceded this recording was more successful in that respect.

Among more recent recordings I must say I enjoyed the Naxos/Wit Mahler 8. Some unusual sonorities and Wit has a firm grip on Part II as well. Not a fan of Gergiev's Mahler and the 'swimmy' St Paul's acoustic doesn't help in  No. 8. No, I reckon Zinman's M8 will be worth the wait, especially if he brings to it the same clarity of texture we've come to expect from this cycle.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2009, 09:01:48 PM »
Yes, I like the Wit/Naxos M8 very much. I just wish it were a tad bit better recorded. Still, it's plenty good. Great tam-tam smashes at the end.

Offline chalkpie

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 01:08:12 PM »
I like his approach very much (most of the time). His fantactical approach to accuracy is a welcome change. At times, I feel I'm only truly hearing the score as intended by the master when I hear the Boulez recordings.

M1 - Excellent
M2 - Flawed but decent
M3 - Phenomenal
M4 - ?
M5 - ?
M6 - Phenomenal
M7 - Quite excellent (1st movement is killer)
M8 - Good
M9 - Great 1st movement, rest is decent-to OK
DLVDE - ?
Songs - Outstanding

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 05:26:13 PM »
"M7 - Quite excellent (1st movement is killer)"

Agreed; the first movement is excellent! That said, I love the quiet, "moonlit" middle section on the new Zinman M7. The ascending harp glissandi are to die for.

Offline chalkpie

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2009, 02:18:38 AM »
"M7 - Quite excellent (1st movement is killer)"

Agreed; the first movement is excellent! That said, I love the quiet, "moonlit" middle section on the new Zinman M7. The ascending harp glissandi are to die for.

If we are thinking of the same section, I couldn't think that anybody nails this better than Boulez - every single detail seems so perfectly placed and the recording is wide and spacious. The harp gliss is also perfect and seems to melt in the (Wind?) trill that follows - gorgeous and perfection. And the Cleveland violin section is just gorgeous. It's details like these where Boulez is basically better than anybody. I guess I need to hear the new Zinman if yuo say it's so good - thanks for the tip!

I listened to Gielen M7 today and the harp gliss is garbage - too bad as the entire recording is really excellent, especially the schezo and finale.

This "moonlight" section of the 1st movement is one of my absolute favorite moments in all of Mahler - it's pure genius.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2009, 09:22:19 PM »
"I guess I need to hear the new Zinman if yuo say it's so good - thanks for the tip!"

Naaah, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. If you're happy with the Boulez, stick with it. I'm just an M7 junkie, along with most other Mahler symphonies.


"This "moonlight" section of the 1st movement is one of my absolute favorite moments in all of Mahler - it's pure genius."

Agreed, as is the similar sounding passage in Part II of M8 (unison violins, harps, chamber organ). That's why that particular passage ticks me off so much from the new MTT/SFSO M8 (played way too slowly; too softly, and with a 5 second pause before it ever gets started).

Barry
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 11:22:51 PM by barry guerrero »

Offline chalkpie

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2009, 12:56:42 PM »
"I guess I need to hear the new Zinman if yuo say it's so good - thanks for the tip!"

Naaah, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. If you're happy with the Boulez, stick with it. I'm just an M7 junkie, along with most other Mahler symphonies.


And I as well! M7 is beyond amazing.

So as a M7 junkie, what else would you deem as essential? What I haven't heard is either of MTT's takes (but I do enjoy his Youtube performance with SFS, albeit that missed trumpet entrance was inexcusable IMO), Lenny's DG, Abbado's older one, plus a plethora of the "older" stuff. Sonics play a huge part in my enjoyment of GM, so if it SOUNDS like it was recorded in 1947 or 1963, then chances are I will give it a pass regardless of performance.

What I do own and enjoy: Lenny Sony, Chailly, Gielen, Boulez, Barenboim, Abbado BSO. That's it.

Offline barry guerrero

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Re: Mahler recordings by Boulez.
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2009, 08:46:45 PM »
I'd say you've got it very well covered. I like the Barenboim one very much, but not so much his M9 (pretty good for a single disc M9 though).

 

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