Zinman M7

[ctcdaggett]

I just received the SACD yesterday (from Moviemars), and have spot-listened.  First impression is that it is distantly  micd, lacking deep bass, and has a veiled quality for the strings.  I went back to the Bernstein/NYP (Sony-Japan/SACD) for a quick compare, just to make certain.  For the deep bass issue, I compared the MTT/SFO to Zinman, and the RCA is weak.  These are very brief, quick listens, but I'll bet there aren't going to be many "10/10" reviews.  Anybody else?  Barry?

bob berkman, newberry springs, ca (mojave desert  hot-hot)

[John Kim]

Oh, that's disappointing. Sounds like Zinman's M7 goes back to the pattern of his M5th.....

John,

[ChrisH]

I've listened to this a handful of times through headphones from my laptop. My stereo is in a box at the moment. I agree the bass may be a bit weak, especially when compared to the NY Phil 7, but few orchestra's have anyone who can blow like Harwood can. Anyway, I found this to be a very coherent interpretation. It's not as agressive, as others, nor as rounded as Kubelik. The strings are very taut, athletic, the brass is a bit bright, and the woodwinds speak with such clarity in the scherzo and nachtmusik's that I was constantly impressed with their sectional playing.

I feel like Zinman's giving us a more 'sunny' side to this work. I also find this to be very well thought out and executed. Everything fits; tone, style, color and clarity. I liked the tempo, they seemed to be about right for me. He handles the gear changes through out this work with a very deft hand. They aren't the hard charging shifts your get from Kondrashin. A bit more mellow; laid back if you will. Over all I think this is a different take from the other 7's I've heard. Personally I really enjoyed it. Maybe I should have prefaced this by stating that I also enjoyed their 5th too.

[John Kim]

I've listened to this a handful of times through headphones from my laptop. My stereo is in a box at the moment. I agree the bass may be a bit weak, especially when compared to the NY Phil 7, but few orchestra's have anyone who can blow like Harwood can. Anyway, I found this to be a very coherent interpretation. It's not as agressive, as others, nor as rounded as Kubelik. The strings are very taut, athletic, the brass is a bit bright, and the woodwinds speak with such clarity in the scherzo and nachtmusik's that I was constantly impressed with their sectional playing.

I feel like Zinman's giving us a more 'sunny' side to this work. I also find this to be very well thought out and executed. Everything fits; tone, style, color and clarity. I liked the tempo, they seemed to be about right for me. He handles the gear changes through out this work with a very deft hand. They aren't the hard charging shifts your get from Kondrashin. A bit more mellow; laid back if you will. Over all I think this is a different take from the other 7's I've heard. Personally I really enjoyed it. Maybe I should have prefaced this by stating that I also enjoyed their 5th too.

Jolly good!

Just as I thought it would sound like.

Thanks.

John,

[barry guerrero]

I like what you describe here. I feel that the 7th should more of a set-up for the 8th, than continuation of the tragic mood and intensity of the 6th. Anyway, just a pair of questions for you: 1). Is the mandolin reasonably audible in the second Nachtmusik? 2). Are there sufficient deep bells and cowbells near the end of the finale? Thanks in advance.

Barry

[ChrisH]

I like what you describe here. I feel that the 7th should more of a set-up for the 8th, than continuation of the tragic mood and intensity of the 6th. Anyway, just a pair of questions for you: 1). Is the mandolin reasonably audible in the second Nachtmusik? 2). Are there sufficient deep bells and cowbells near the end of the finale? Thanks in advance.

Barry

The mandolin is audible; it fits quite well. The cow bells are also pretty loud in the finale. I like the Tonhalle Zurich cowbell sound very much.

[barry guerrero]

Word. I'm sold.   

[mahlerei]

Finally got round to this today and would have to say it's wonderful in parts but overall somewhat disappointing. The orchestral detail is simply astonishing throughout, with a wonderful 'hear through' quality to the sound. The first movement is probably the most successful, the Rondo-Finale the weakest. Having heard all Zinman's Mahler so far I find he sometimes lose track of the music's structure and lingers too much on tiny details. Abbado (in his Chicago recording) still strikes me as the front runner here, with Gielen not far behind. Superb sound quality, though, especially in SACD form.

[barry guerrero]

Not to put up an argument - especially since I haven't even heard the Zinman - but I find Gielen just a tad too "poopy" and slightly "dour" sounding in the finale.  Hopefully, Zinman won't comes across that way to me either. There's a live Gielen M7 "pirate" that's floated around, from Berlin, in which the finale is nearly a full minute faster. I prefer Abbado's Berlin remake to his first Chicago M7, only because the recording has a bit more depth to it. I find the "sound stage" a tad flat and shallow on his Chicago one.

Barry

[mahlerei]

Poopy!? I think I know what you're getting at, Gielen's Mahler tends to be on the light side, and that suits the Wunderhorn symphonies better than the later ones. To some extent I feel that's true of Zinman as well, whose M6 I found not so much light as lightweight.

I must say I haven't warmed to all of Abbado's Lucerne/Berlin remakes but the live M3 with Anna Larsson is an exceptional performance. I wouldn't want to be without that, or the earlier VPO recording with Jessye Norman. I know the Lucerne band are hand-picked, top-notch musicians but that doesn't guarantee memorable performances (in my book at least).

Coming back to Zinman's cycle, I wouldn't want to be without 2, 4 and 5, and I'm hoping 8 will be worth the wait.

[barry guerrero]

By "poopy", I mean mostly in terms of tempi. As I recall, Gielen doesn't really pick up much more steam in the back half of the finale. The "live" Berlin one was more alive and fun loving in the finale.

[Leo K]

The orchestral detail is simply astonishing throughout, with a wonderful 'hear through' quality to the sound. Superb sound quality, though, especially in SACD form.

This was what I was hoping to hear...the detail was suberb in his M6 as well...thanks for the thoughts.

--Todd

[mahlerei]

By "poopy", I mean mostly in terms of tempi. As I recall, Gielen doesn't really pick up much more steam in the back half of the finale. The "live" Berlin one was more alive and fun loving in the finale.

Yes, I'd agree with that. I certainly prefer Gielen's live M8 on Sony to his Hanssler version.

Incidentally, Gielen's live Gurrelieder is one of the most riveting performances I've heard, live or on disc.

[mahlerei]

The orchestral detail is simply astonishing throughout, with a wonderful 'hear through' quality to the sound. Superb sound quality, though, especially in SACD form.

This was what I was hoping to hear...the detail was suberb in his M6 as well...thanks for the thoughts.

--Todd

Todd

You won't be disappointed on that score. Even though I'm lukewarm on the performance as a whole it has some wonderful moments - just not enough of them!

Dan

[barry guerrero]

Soooooo musical. I've been listening through this tonight. The middle "Nachtmusik" episode in the first movement is to die for! The playing is so controlled, and the ascending harp glissandos are exquisite. And the finale has plenty of percussion at the end. My only complaint - if you want to call it that - is that I wish that Zinman were just a tiny tad slower with the main body of the first movement, and a bit quicker and more playful with some of the faster variations in the back-half of the finale. Then again, I pretty much make that same "complaint" about most M7 recordings. But overall, this is very good. You can hear the offstage cowbells in the first Nachtmusik (second movements), where the horns are calling to each other across the distance of a lake, or forst (or some outdoorsy space). Also, the descending glissandos in the woodwinds and strings, near the start of the scherzo, are superbly done.

Once again, Zinman is a tad short on Mahlerian rhetoric and bombast, but very tall on sheer musicality. I really like this.

Barry