Haitink's second recorded M7

[Karafan]

Hello all

I was listening to an old recorded BBC "Building a Library" programme on my iPod, while out walking this morning.  It probably dates from 7/8 years ago and the subject was M7.

The reviewer mentioned a preference for Haitink's second Concertgebouw recording.  I have looked for a decent Haitink discography online but have drawn a blank.  The Mahler symphonies box must contain his first M7 recording, so am I right in thinking there must have been a 1980s M7 digitally recorded (and presumably nla)?  I take it that this and the one featured in the "Kertsmatinees" box are not one and the same then?

If anyone can provide me with the respective recording dates, I would appreciate it.  Thanks

(PS I am not necessarily intending to track down his 2nd recording, as I am very happy with Lenny and occasionally sample Solti for some in-yer-face close up miking!)

Thanks

Karafan

[John Kim]

Karafan,

"this and the one featured in the "Kertsmatinees" box are not one and the same then?"

No, they are two different Haitink M7ths.

The digital studio recording was made about the same time as the live recording but they are significantly different showing the two faces of Haitink indeed. The former is slower, more 'autumnal' and nocturnal, somewhat lacking drive and momentum. It's essentially an old man's view of the music. But the live one sounds like it came from a much younger conductor; the playing by RCO here is nothing short of brilliant and right on the marks. I like the both versions but would prefer the latter, if I am hard pressed to choose only one.

John,

[barry guerrero]

This early digital recording of M7 is very good in the first two movements, but is quite slow and dull with the middle movement scherzo, and rather lumbering in the finale. By all accounts, the X-mas matinee one is supposed to be much better. It's also not that great sounding, sonically speaking - very dry in the lower end. I do, however, like his very first one very much. That '60s one has never been issued separately on CD, as far as I know.

[Karafan]

Thank you, gentlemen.  You always can be relied upon for swift and illuminating responses!

I am rather pleased John prefers the Kerstmatinees version - which is the one I have! 

I never did invest in the Haitink studio box - though I have 3 and 9 from it separately.  Are there any other standout recordings from that cycle, I wonder? 

I have Lennyx2, Solti, Bertini, Kubelik, Tennstedt, Kondrashin, Abbado as far as he goes and innumerable odd symphonies from Walter to Rattle via Scherchen!  I do often wonder though whether Bernie ought not to be joining them on the groaning shelves?

[sperlsco]

I'll have to look through my recordings, but I believe Haitink has 4 M7's with the RCOA, plus two more with the Berlin PO. 

For the RCOA, he has an analog one from the 60's, a digital one from the 80's, and the Xmas matinee one (also available on DVD set).  In addition, there is an M7 in a Concertegebouw anthology box from either the 60's or 70's. 

He also has two BPO ones, as the CD and DVD are different performances. 

[Damfino]

If you could get a good price on the Haitink set, i think it is quite a good one. I often see it going for $58 or so and up, which is too high, IMO.

Haitink's early Mahler is much better than his later efforts, IMO. The original RCO set is very well recorded, and you can hear details very well. However, it is very light in the bass department, so the works do not quite have the oomph they should. The 7th in that set is quite good, IMO. I don't think there is a real dud in the set, though many complain that Haitink does not do a good 8th. I wouldn't know because I do not know the 8th well enough to know a good one from an OK one.

[barry guerrero]

"Haitink's early Mahler is much better than his later efforts, IMO."

I completely agree with that sentiment. What's happened to this guy?

[akiralx]

I don't think there is a real dud in the set, though many complain that Haitink does not do a good 8th. I wouldn't know because I do not know the 8th well enough to know a good one from an OK one.

Remember you can get the 8th on SACD (Pentatone). 

I recall there was an earlier 4th before his 60s cycle, or is my memory playing me false? 

I may be the only one for disliking the 1960s M3 with Maureen Forrester which I know Barry likes, on an Originals reissue now.

Anyway, I remember his c.1971 M5 was one of the first CDs I ever bought and I still have it like it, even though Chailly, Kobayashi and others maybe surpass it now.  Has a certain autumnal feel without being in any way ponderous or underpowered - I really like the finale in this one.  Also on Pentatone SACD...

[barry guerrero]

"I recall there was an earlier 4th before his 60s cycle, or is my memory playing me false?"

You might be thinking of Van Beinum. Obviously, his came in between Mengelberg and Haitink. Haitink's first one had Ely Ameling as the soprano. It's quite good. Then he did an early digital era one with Roberta Alexander. That wasn't too bad either. Next came the BPO one with Slyvia McNair. And while I've complained about many of Haitink's recent recordings, I actually like the new Concertgebouw 4th he recently recorded.

By the way, I also like Haitink's very first recording of M5. I liked his Berlin one too, except that the Adagietto took over 13 minutes of time - that's extremely slow. In general, I like Edo DeWaart more than Haitink when it comes to Mahler. He's very much like Haitink, only less dour sounding. He looks on Mahler's  positive side more than Haitink does. To put that the other, DeWaart dwells less on Mahler's dark side than Haitink does. But they sound rather similar.